Contract Pilots at the Majors

[Jakejett]

Chq, Mesa, Skywest, etc. fly for various regionals. They have each company's name painted on the aircraft with a little "operated by X-airlines" on the side. I think this is is setting the industry up to happen on a larger scale. Imagine a Delta Airlines with no employees outside of management. They contract out the flying just like what is happening at the regionals. When a contract expires they put the flying up for bid, thus always getting the lowest bidder. Imagine a 777 with a company's logo on the side with "operated by X-airlines" written on it. These airlines can downsize overnight or add another contract and double in size just as quickly. You all say that can't happen due to Scope, don't bet on it. Some of the Majors are vulnerable and operating under Chapter 11 now. New airlines are born every year. Open skies agreement is on the horizon. We need one national union for ALL pilots from flight instructor to 777 pilot. If you fly for a wage, you belong. We control all flying like the unions in Europe. When those guys get pissed they just shut down the entire country. It will be the only way for pilots to protect their careers. Otherwise we will see the perfect airline come to existence with no retirement, no benefits, no airplanes, no employees, etc. Just my 2 cents. Kind of scary though.

 

[michael707767]

it will happen. All the ALPA carriers keep giving away more and more scope. It will never stop. Some years down the road just the scenario you presented will be reality. An airline will only be a brand, much as McDonalds is no more than a brand who provides the marketing and support, but really does not own the resturaunts.

 

[SNOWBUM]

just for the record ,in europe airlines do not shut down the country, quite the opposite. when they go on strike they can only strike certain routes on certain dates as set by the gov. Furthermore, there is no national pilot union from cfi and up. every airline has its own in house union for pilots ( because there used to be just ine airline when things where regulated) , unlike in the US where ALPA represents several different airlines.

also, the case you where ilustrating is basically passenger ACMI, wich already happens in europe with AAI and a few others.

on top of that, european carriers are about 5 years behind when it comes to screwing their pilots the way the US does, but they are catching up very , very fast. look at the domestic flying from comanies like IB or BA and you will see what I mean.
plus they too have regionals and even mainline investing in LCC's. things are getting as bad there and here.

hte only way things will ever improve is if we can dismantle the horrible RLA and act like the rest of the unions in the USA( when your contract expires, you stop working) .

 

[Jakejett]

Didn't know about the airline unions in Europe. Just always see how the truckers block all the roads in France every so often and it affects the entire transportation system. I wish we would all stop working when our contracts expire. How many airlines are flying with expired contracts now shows that it gets to be a bunch of crap after awhile.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

We need one national union for ALL pilots from flight instructor to 777 pilot. If you fly for a wage, you belong. We control all flying like the unions in Europe. When those guys get pissed they just shut down the entire country. It will be the only way for pilots to protect their careers. Otherwise we will see the perfect airline come to existence with no retirement, no benefits, no airplanes, no employees, etc. Just my 2 cents. Kind of scary though.

Have you looked at DHL's business model? That's exactly what they've been doing in Europe for a long time, and have begun to do here.

We do have a national union. It's called the Air Line Pilots Association. (I know there are others, but ALPA predominates) What our profession is headed for is a situation not unlike that of mine workers prior to the formation of their union. Each morning, a manager would appear at the mine, asking how many wanted work at "X" dollars a day. Obviously, the more guys who showed up, the fewer dollars that were offered. Miners were bidding against each other, often brother against brother and dad against son, for their jobs.

The issue you've raised, that of ACMI operators and/or "outsourcing," "code sharing," and any other scheme that treats pilots as "cockpit temps" will ultimately have far more effect on our pay and QOL than any other subject being discussed on this board. We needn't worry about foreign carriers and third-world airlines taking over our routes. We're already on the road to becoming a third-world labor force.

If I were a young man (and by "young" I mean under 40) I wouldn't be so concerned about which "flavor of the week" airline hired me or how senior their most recent Captain upgrade was. I wouldn't care whether it flew boxes, people, or horse tu*rds to China. I would, however, be gravely concerned about what my union was doing to preserve the integrity of my job, and of my profession.

 

[Resocha]

Major airlines contracting labor out to lower-cost operators and diluting employee quality of life!!!??? When did this begin happening!!!???

 

[AA717driver]

Major airlines contracting labor out to lower-cost operators and diluting employee quality of life!!!??? When did this begin happening!!!???

LOL!

Seriously, I have a 767 type and a couple thousand hours in type. I have flown all around the world in my current position. I'm way more qualified than some S80 CA with no Int'l experience who gets his chance to upgrade to the 767/CA/I at AA. Why wouldn't AA want to hire me on contract? Pay me a fixed rate for a defined period of time. If I'm not a good troop, my contract doesn't get renewed.

It's win-win for the airline.

When will we figure out that the airlines aren't in business to make our lives better? TC

 

[shon7]

How soon before we see an all contract airline -- that is -- the airline owns all the physical assets and all the labor is contracted/leased.

 

[Captain Overs]

Chq, Mesa, Skywest, etc. fly for various regionals. They have each company's name painted on the aircraft with a little "operated by X-airlines" on the side. I think this is is setting the industry up to happen on a larger scale. Imagine a Delta Airlines with no employees outside of management. They contract out the flying just like what is happening at the regionals. When a contract expires they put the flying up for bid, thus always getting the lowest bidder. Imagine a 777 with a company's logo on the side with "operated by X-airlines" written on it. These airlines can downsize overnight or add another contract and double in size just as quickly. You all say that can't happen due to Scope, don't bet on it. Some of the Majors are vulnerable and operating under Chapter 11 now. New airlines are born every year. Open skies agreement is on the horizon. We need one national union for ALL pilots from flight instructor to 777 pilot. If you fly for a wage, you belong. We control all flying like the unions in Europe. When those guys get pissed they just shut down the entire country. It will be the only way for pilots to protect their careers. Otherwise we will see the perfect airline come to existence with no retirement, no benefits, no airplanes, no employees, etc. Just my 2 cents. Kind of scary though.

It's called "Branded Flying" and you make a good point. Hopefully the industry doesn't completely head in that direction.