continental pension underfunding

[densoo]

For the record I dead head in FIRST class to Europe, spend 24 hours there, then spend another 2 1/2 hours in First Class before I go to the cockpit for about 5 hours. Real tough. So once a week I spend 5 hours in the cockpit for 17+hrs pay. Once in the last year and a half have I been in coach.

You are positively excited that you're flying "FIRST class to Europe." The problem is this is privilege at CAL, not a right. Are there any other Legacy carriers that IRO in coach? The CALALPA contract says coach, but you seem to be very pleased that you've been upgraded to first. When IROs at other carriers come to work, they don't have to hope they'll get first today based on loads, gate agents whims, or other factors. And they aren't excited about it. They know they won't be sitting in coach--it is in their contract. No first class/business, no go. At CAL the attitude is "oh, thank you so much for not poking me in the eye with a stick today, it feels so much better."

PS. What is a "poc-a-hols"?

 

[Flopgut]

If you can explain to me how the pilot pensions at UAL, USAirways, DAL were "lost" then maybe we can talk about the mechanics of a plan shutdown.

Can you explain this or are you simply ranting without knowing nothing about the subject?

You view this as a grand scheme by management versus a global economic crisis. Its apparent via your paranoia. Management is stupid on a lot of fronts, but if they are that stupid why do you think they are so smart to screw the pilots over? The pension plan is underfunded at this time through a combination of low interest rates and horrific investment returns (both of which are a product of the economic environment). It is not in its current state due to a deliberate manipulation from management. MOST pension plans are in bad shape these days, this is why defined benefit plans are a dying breed.

Hmmmm.

Explain how pilot pensions were lost in better economies?

The truth is, your trying to apply normal world rules to the airline world. Don't work. Pilots have spent most of their professional lives as lesser partners in the American economic endeavor.

 

[EWR_FO]

You are positively excited that you're flying "FIRST class to Europe." The problem is this is privilege at CAL, not a right. Are there any other Legacy carriers that IRO in coach? The CALALPA contract says coach, but you seem to be very pleased that you've been upgraded to first. When IROs at other carriers come to work, they don't have to hope they'll get first today based on loads, gate agents whims, or other factors. And they aren't excited about it. They know they won't be sitting in coach--it is in their contract. No first class/business, no go. At CAL the attitude is "oh, thank you so much for not poking me in the eye with a stick today, it feels so much better."

PS. What is a "poc-a-hols"?

IRO's at other carriers don't deadhead, they work because it's safer. Our contract is an absolute embarrassment, engineered by the "I'll blo* Satan to save my A-Plan" crowd. CAL management is in for a rude awakening on this next contract, they haven't been punched in the face in a LONG time but it is definitely coming.

 

[CitationLover]

Hmmmm.

Explain how pilot pensions were lost in better economies?

The truth is, your trying to apply normal world rules to the airline world. Don't work. Pilots have spent most of their professional lives as lesser partners in the American economic endeavor.

Thanks for answering. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Flopgut]

We'll see.

 

[Flopgut]

Thanks for answering. You don't know what you are talking about.

Here, try and answer this: Is there anything more worthless at this point than your specific knowledge about an A plan? Really? It's not even that much money at this point. You're debating this lump sum vs. annuity like it's a real big deal. It's not. CAL mgt. will step over a dollar to pick up a dime if it screws an employee.

 

[CitationLover]

Here, try and answer this: Is there anything more worthless at this point than your specific knowledge about an A plan?

I make more consulting on pension plans (20hrs/wk) than I made flying a 120,000# airplane. So it's not worthless.

My whole point is you railing against management while making an unintelligent argument. It simply removes any credibility your argument may have.

 

[bizicmo]

I make more consulting on pension plans (20hrs/wk) than I made flying a 120,000# airplane. So it's not worthless.

So you are telling us that you make $40,000 a year right now.

 

[CitationLover]

So you are telling us that you make $40,000 a year right now.

no a little more, in a part time job. the point being, all pilots are underpaid if we're making less than consultants who work part time. heck i left 2.5x that amount working full time to fly full time (I guess life is coming full circle).

but it's ok, some republic schmuck will make less and do my job. their CA's make less than our FO's did...

 

[Flopgut]

I make more consulting on pension plans (20hrs/wk) than I made flying a 120,000# airplane. So it's not worthless.

My whole point is you railing against management while making an unintelligent argument. It simply removes any credibility your argument may have.

The CAL A plan funding, solvency, durability, etc. will be leveraged by management against our scope clause. Or anything else we might possibly desire.

It is vulnerable, it can go away, and it should go away, before any pilot loses even one red cent elsewhere in the contract.

This is negotiations. Your specific knowledge is inconsequential here. It was a guy like you who negotiated the UAL A plan away. Lost the whole scope clause AND the A plan!! Mgts eat your type for breakfast.