Contact Procedures

[abev107]

Maybe be a little nit-picky, but I want to get it right.

Arriving VFR a/c to HPN Westchester NY are advised to contact NY App for arrival sequencing. Which is the appropriate initial contact?

(just who i am)
option 1 - "NY App, Skyhawk4787 Papa." [the way I was taught, wait for NY App to acknowledge then say request]

OR

(who i am and what i want)
option 2 - "NY App, Skyhawk4787 Papa, 12 miles nw to land Westchester with Alpha."

As far as I can tell AIM sect 4-2-3 indicates optin 1 is the correct method.

 

[Thunderchief]

I say option #1

This allows the controller to be in the mindset to hear (and understand) where you are and what you want, instead of you giving him/her too much info when they we not really listnening anyway or were busy with something else...

 

[pireps]

Technically the first choice is probably the "most correct" answer. Especially if you're VFR, it's quiet on the radio and the controller has no idea who you are or what you want so you can get his/her undevided attention before telling him the rest of your transmission. Remember he/she might be talking to other aircraft/facilities on other frequencies, landlines, etc. Otherwise you might get an "aircraft calling NY say again"... and a whole bunch of unnecessary back and forth radio congestion.

Some places with a lot of VFR traffic (such as VRB) will hate you if you do that though. They want to know everything about you right away and they're ready for it, too...

And PLEASE, can we all agree NOT to say "with you" when checking in with a controller?

 

[abev107]

thanks for the replies.

As for the "with you", I understand that "with you" is used only after you've been handed off from another controller e.g after ny app tells me to contact westch tower. Or is "with you" a no-no period?

 

[pireps]

"With you" doesn't tell the controller anything at all. I don't even know where that came from in the first place. Can someone show me in the AIM or pilot/controller glossary where that is part of standard phraseology? I would call it a no-no, although I know plenty of "real" airline pilots us it all the time. Becomes a habit I guess. Just leave it out all together. I know I'm nitpicky...

 

[Country Wild]

What about "Chicago Center United 1025 Heavy checking in out eleven five for one seven thousand" Is that OK, I am not being a smart ass, we just have been having this debate off and on

CW

 

[JRSLim]

With or without you

Here's what I was taught and what I like to use. Initially I was taught that when coming in form the neverland outside of the relevant airspace to contact aproach and state 'approach, airplane xxx 2o miles south of the airport.'
Later, my Instrument Instructor told me it was better to give a little more info (landing and ATIS), which is what I've stuck with even in VFR. This has worked well for me and so far I haven't had any 'say again' requests.
If I'm being handed off - 'contact tower/ contact Denver apporach' etc. then I think 'with you' is apropriate and convienient-- and has once again this has worked well.
Incidently I flew with another pilot today, and while he was 'accurate' according to the AIM, the way he phrased a lot of things seemed really 'bulky'.
I try to adhere to the standards, but feel there are situations where clarity and brevity are most important.

Shaun

 

[pireps]

While using plain english to get a point across to a controller is totally acceptable and desirable, I still think that adding too much additional verbiage is time consuming at best and confusing at worst. Of course everybody develops their own radio style after a while, and with experience you start to "feel" how much information is appropriate at any given time.
Look at it this way: how many controllers do you hear adding nonessential words to their transmissions? Sure, some get chatty and there's often a good morning, good day, etc, but for the most part they talk like a radio communications textbook.
Some other nitpicky things: "oh" instead of "zero" -- FL two five oh, heading two five oh

The use of "for" and "to" which of course sound like their number-counterparts:
"climbing to 2000" -- two-two thousand?
Why not make it: "leaving 1000, climbing 2000" and leave those pesky little tos and fors out all together...

And sure you might be a dorky pilot to say "tree" and "fife" but it does cut down the possibility of being misunderstood. And isn't that what we all want...

 

[501261]

The important thing to remember is that you are trying to communicate! Every situation tends to be unique, when meeting a friend for dinner do you say "How Are you?", "Hello.", "Whazzzzup?" they are all acceptable in different social scenarios.

While I'm personally not a fan of "checking in," "with you," and especially "AND Center" I chalk most of these up to personal preference, as long as the person you are talking to can clearly understands your message.

The biggest advice I have when checking in is to LISTEN! By listening to the frequency before talking on it, you get an idea of what the controller is doing and thereby reducing "blockage". For instance, after listening to the frequency and not hearing anything, I like to check in with "Good morning New York, Cessna 12345, VFR Request" I know that the "good morning" is not necessary, but if the frequency is quiet it might get the controller off the landline in time to catch the call sign and get ready for my request! On the other hand if s/he's busy, "Approach, Skyhawk 4787Papa, over Ossining 4500', landing Westchester, with Alpha" is how I'd check in.

 

[Timebuilder]

Arriving VFR a/c to HPN Westchester NY are advised to contact NY App for arrival sequencing. Which is the appropriate initial contact?

I take it from the word "advised" that you were already talking to ATC (maybe Stewart?) for flight following when you were told to contact NY approach for the sequence into White Plains. How about this:

"NY App, Skyhawk4787 Papa, with Alpha, three thousand."

From the mention of "Alpha", the controller knows you want HPN.

If there has been no hand off, or if the controller wants to see where you are: "87 Papa, Ident" or "87 Papa, squawk xxxx and ident".

After that, you get a vector and some traffic advisories. Here's one you won't get in the Skyhawk near HPN: "slow to 170 knots and expect the sound visual"