Conditions at the Regionals

[vossdr1]

Am I correct in thinking that there are many unions who represent Regional Pilots? If so, consider this.

Since the starting pay for the regionals is so poor-how about this:
All the regional unions make it a point in the next contract they negotiate to make the expiration of the contract at a certain date (each union/company). If each of the unions could achieve this at the unionized regionals, it seems to me, this would give them serious leverage to increase the pay scale of that subsequent contract.

 

[DoinTime]

Airline contract never expire, they only become amendable under the railway labor act. Unfortuantely we are dealing with a higher power.

 

[Cadillac]

Regional Unions

Vossdr1,

From what I understand, you are correct in that there are several different unions at different regionals. Chautauqua has the Teamsters, I think most of the others use ALPA, and Skywest is non-union.

I'm not entirely sure how the process of the unions work (please dont swamp this thread with "they dont" ), but does anyone know if the different regional unions ever assemble to discuss the pay scales across the regional level and what can be done to raise them collectively? Who runs the unions, are they pilots or outsiders?

What would be nice is if many of the contracts for the different regionals came due for renogotiation closer to each other, rather than spaced out every 3 years or so.

 

[Bluto]

It's hard enough to get an individual pilot group to agree on what's best for themselves. To organize an industry-wide labor coordination would be impossible. There are just too many different issues affecting the different pilot groups. As for arranging to have the contracts negotiated at the same time, again it's a very complicated issue. Negotiating a contract usually takes years. Even if you could get them all to start negotiations at the same time, finishing all at once would be impossible. Nice theories, it's just way too complicated a problem to solve simply.

 

[wifeofpilot]

bluto

always a nay sayer

 

[Bluto]

Really?

I thought I was being friendly for replying in a positive, constructive way. Without any personal attacks. But, since you asked, here's what I really think:
This idea is patently ridiculous and could never work. Anyone who knows anything about the negotiating process or the industry in general would know that. If it makes you feel better to put me down personally, fine. The views expressed on this post are well-intentioned but ignorant. Kind of like when you are a little kid and you dream about digging a tunnel to China. Neat idea, in theory. In practice, impossible. But I'm sure you are an expert enough at this industry to put me in my place. I'm sure you know more about the process than my union and negotiating committee.

 

[Cadillac]

Patently Ridiculous

whew,

Now that you've got your view out there.

Bluto, could you answer my questions about who runs the unions, and do you know more that I about which regionals have which unions?

I may be dreaming, but I'd like to dream up a way to get more reasonable pay at that level. The current situation is disappointing, and every time a pilot group votes for concessions I can't help but wonder how things are to get better.

 

[Bluto]

No offense intended. Just how I see it.

Cadillac,
Please don't take my comments personally. I didn't mean it as an insult. Cooperation between unions is a great idea. Cooperation on that grand a scale is just not practical, in my opinion. Trying to get a single pay rate, or 'minimum wage' for airline pilots is an interesting idea, but not necessarily one in our best interests. Pay at an individual airline is dependent on numerous factors that vary significantly between airlines. Aircraft type, capacity, company work-rules, corporate structure, corporate culture, profit, all play a role in how pay is determined. These things differ widely between even the most similar companies. The bottom line with regard to determining pay is this: You will get paid what you can negotiate. This has nothing to do with your actual worth. It is a reality of the market.

I can't speak for all unions, but here's how it works at ALPA:
Organizationally, ALPA is divided into "pilot groups." Each pilot group consists of all the pilots at a given airline. Pilot groups exercise considerable autonomy in governing their own internal affairs, such as negotiating contracts. Each pilot group is governed by its Master Executive Council, composed of the two or three elected representatives from each of the pilot group's Local Councils (which are located in the airline's major domiciles). The Local Council representatives from all the groups also comprise the Board of Directors, which sets major policies. An Executive Board and Executive Council provide interim guidance between the biennial meetings of the Board of Directors. The four national officers (president, vice president, vice president of administration, vice president of finance) administer these policies from the Association's offices in Washington, D.C., and nearby Herndon, Va.

To give you an idea of the negotiating process and why it would be impossible to coordinate even two companies, much less the whole industry, here is a basic outline of the negotiating process as outlined in the Railway Labor Act (RLA):

Preparation Phase
• Appointment of Negotiating Committee
• Review of current contract and other pilots’ agreements
• Membership questionnaire and telephone surveys
• Strategy sessions with advisors
• Evaluation of company financials
• Development of Proposals

Section 6 Direct Negotiations
• Send Section 6 notice to company
• Exchange of proposals
• Direct bargaining begins
• Status quo must be maintained
If direct talks succeed, bargaining is concluded

Mediation
• Either or both parties request NMB to assign federal mediator
• Mediator has no authority to force an agreement
• No time specified for conclusion
• Status quo must be maintained
If mediated talks succeed, bargaining is concluded

Binding Arbitration
• Rarely occurs, since both parties must agree
• If both parties agree, neutral third party decides issues
• Status quo must be maintained
If parties agree to arbitration, arbitrator decides issues and bargaining is concluded

30-Day Cooling-Off Period
• Cooling-off period begins after parties reject arbitration
• One of three NMB members joins talks in “super mediation”
• First deadline is imposed on negotiating process
• Status quo must be maintained
If super mediation succeeds, bargaining is concluded

Presidential Emergency Board
• President has power to intervene by appointing a PEB
• Appointed Board recommends contract resolution within 30 days
• Parties are not obligated to accept recommendation
• If parties reject, new 30-day cooling-off period begins
• At conclusion of new 30-day cooling-off period, parties are free to engage in self-help [i.e., strike]
• Legislative intervention is possible, but rare
• Status quo must be maintained until end of cooling-off period
If PEB recommendation accepted or new talks succeed, bargaining is concluded

Here is a list of a few unions and the airlines they represent:

Airlines represented by ALPA:
Air Canada, Jazz, Gemini Air Cargo, Air Transat, Hawaiian Airlines, Air Wisconsin, Kelowna, Flightcraft Air Charter, Alaska Airlines, Mesa Airlines Group, Allegheny Airlines, Mesaba Aviation, Aloha Airlines, Midway Airlines, Aloha Island Air, Midwest Airlines, America West, Northwest Airlines, American Eagle, Pan American Airways, ATA Airlines, Piedmont Airlines, Atlantic Coast Airlines, Pinnacle Airlines, Atlantic Southeast Airlines, Polar Air Cargo Airlines, Atlas Air, PSA Airlines, Bearskin Airlines, Ross Aviation, Calm Air, Ryan International Airlines, Champion Air, Skyway Airlines, Comair, Spirit Airlines, Continental and Continental Express, Sun Country Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Trans States Airlines, DHL, United Airlines, Fedex, US Airways.

Airlines represented by the Teamsters:
Airborne Express, Air Transport International (ATI), Arrow Air, Challenge Air, Custom Air Transport, Express One, Grand Air Express, Great Lakes Aviation, Gulfstream International, Horizon Air, Kalitta Air, KittyHawk International, NetJets, Shuttle America
Southern Air Transport, United Express (Great Lakes), U.S.A. 3000 Airlines, U.S. Airways (Chautauqua), World Airways, Zantop International

A few airlines have their own unions:
Southwest Airline Pilots Association, Allied Pilots Association (American Airlines), Others?

Some other airlines are non-union:
SkyWest, CommutAir, Jet Blue, and others I'm forgetting.

I agree that the current conditions are disappointing. No, worse than that, they're appalling, they're ridiculous, they're insulting! How do we fix it? My opinion: The industry will turn around. Once the industry is in a better position, pay rates will increase through the normal negotiating process. Some companies will lead the pack while others lag behind. Keep in mind, pay at the regionals is much better, even now, than it has been in years past. Talk to some people who were hired in the early 90's. After working under abysmal conditions, paying thousands for their training, and then working for $13/hour, they are unlikely to feel terribly sorry for an FO starting out today. In fact, conditions are as good as they are because of their hard work negotiating our current pay. Industry-wide, I feel they will only get better. But then I'm an optimist.

 

[Speedtree]

Regional Corroboration (sp)?

If my memory is correct the regional airlines associated with ALPA did get together a few months ago to discuss the state of the regional industry. I think it was right after Mesa went through their negotiations and there were other issues as well. The ALPA magazine had an article about it. I read it but I don't remember much else.

I know our MEC Chairman talks to ACA occasionally especially during this United mess.

I agree with Bluto in that Regionals are better off than before. The problem is, we are regionals working for Major partners who control alot of the game. Also we are represented by ALPA who also represents the Majors which I believe hurts us to some degree. There are no easy answeres.