Compensation or hire

[AC560]

What is the difference. I can find all kinds of things defining compensation (money, flight time, etc.). I can't find anything defining hire.

 

[Say Again Over]

Self explanatory: payment for labor or personal services.

 

[nosehair]

Very good point! I have not found a good 'definition' for hire either, when trying to explain that 'hiring' is not 'renting'.

'Hiring' involves payment to a person for their service as in hire a cab: you are hiring the person (plus the cab) for a service. If you want just the car, you rent the car. This is how I look at 100 hour maint. requirements. If it's for hire (with pilot or instructor) it requires a 100 hr. If it's for rent, it doesn't.

You have directed my attention to the line, " Carrying passengers for compensation or hire", which can be used to show that "hire" means "compensation" to a pilot for flying services.

 

[AC560]

Self explanatory: payment for labor or personal services.

Wouldn't that be the definition of compensation? The reg's always state for compensation or hire. So if compensation means getting compensated what does for hire mean?

You have directed my attention to the line, " Carrying passengers for compensation or hire", which can be used to show that "hire" means "compensation" to a pilot for flying services.

If hire means compensation why do they say compensation or hire; why not just compensation?

I sort of think it has something to do with holding out because if you look through AC120-12 where they give guidelines on private/common carriage they heavily use for hire (not compensation) in relation to holding out. I can't think of any situations where you would be hired without being compensated (given the FAA considers logging flying time alone to be compensation). But it is something that is rather puzzling to me at least.

 

[Lead Sled]

Compensation doesn't just mean that you receive monetary payment. Compensation can include many types of tangible benefits as well.

 

[AC560]

Compensation doesn't just mean that you receive monetary payment. Compensation can include many types of tangible benefits as well.

As I noted in my original post. The FAA broadly defines compensation in many places including giving specific examples of compensation (such as flight time in and of itself). What I can't find is what trips the or hire portion which always follows for compensation.

 

[nosehair]

If hire means compensation why do they say compensation or hire; why not just compensation?

I think it is legalese speak to cover all the bases. Hire would generally mean a payment of cash for services as in hire a cab. Compensate would cover all those other transactions of compensation, ie. Stick-Time-on-My-Lear.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Very good point! I have not found a good 'definition' for hire either, when trying to explain that 'hiring' is not 'renting'.

Why isn't it?

 

[nosehair]

Why isn't it?

as in 91.409(b)...no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours...(100 inspection). In this context, the word "hire" means the flight instructor and airplane together, then the 100 hour is required. If you "rent" the airplane with no instructor, then no 100 hour is required.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yeah, but that's because the reg talks specifically about "flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides" and not about an aircraft for hire. It doesn't have anything to so with a different meaning of "hire" just what that term applies to.

Pure "rentals" aren't covered by the reg, not because of some intrinsic meaning of "for hire" but because the reg doesn't say anything about providing aircraft for hire.

If for example, the reg said,

==============================
Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, and no person may furnish an aircraft for hire, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service...
==============================

rentals would probably require 100 hour inspections

BTW, I agree that while "compensation or hire" might have slightly different meanings (probably historical - most of the rules about what comes under Part 135 and what doesn't have roots in very old common carrier law - probably predating stagecoaches), it's mostly "belt and suspenders" legalese. If my memory serves me right, "for hire" implies on demand for a fee, while "compensation" just means getting a benefit.