"Compensation or Hire"

[PowerCurve]

I have a question re: definition of Comercial Operator and Compensation or Hire, and whether a 2nd class/ Commercial pilot license apply to this situation:

Here's the FAR definition of Commercial Operator:
Commercial operator means a person who, for compensation or hire, engages in the carriage by aircraft in air commerce of persons or property, other than as an air carrier or foreign air carrier or under the authority of Part 375 of this title. Where it is doubtful that an operation is for "compensation or hire", the test applied is whether the carriage by air is merely incidental to the person's other business or is, in itself, a major enterprise for profit.

Let's say 50% of your job is transporting people who work at your company to a job site. Would you say the test applied is that it's incidental or not? I'm confused.

Situation is a pilot who is claiming a 3rd class medical is all that they need to transport others to a job site. I say that if part of your job description is as a pilot, you need a Commercial License (at least) and a 2nd class medical because you are indeed receiving compensation as a pilot.

Any feedback?

 

[flyer172r]

I would agree that you need a Commercial and 2nd class medical.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Here's the FAR definition of Commercial Operator:
Commercial operator means a person who, for compensation or hire, engages in the carriage by aircraft in air commerce of persons or property, other than as an air carrier or foreign air carrier or under the authority of Part 375 of this title. Where it is doubtful that an operation is for "compensation or hire", the test applied is whether the carriage by air is merely incidental to the person's other business or is, in itself, a major enterprise for profit.

Let's say 50% of your job is transporting people who work at your company to a job site. Would you say the test applied is that it's incidental or not? I'm confused.

If you're trying to determine whether, while exercising Private Pilot privileges, you can fly coworkers to the job site on the company airplane, the company is NOT a commercial operator.
If the pilot has "pilot" anywhere in his job description, he must have a second class medical, because it is NOT incidental to his job. On the other hand, if he's simply the job foreman, or an equipment operator who happens to be a pilot, he can exercise private pilot privileges (wiht a third class medical) while flying himself and others to the job site. IF the insurance company will allow it, that is

§ 61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and
(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.

Fly safe!

David

 

[PowerCurve]

Here's part of the job description, however, individual performance evaluations include the word "pilot"

KNOWLEDGES, SKILLS AND ABILITIES REQUIRED

Commercial and non-commercial flight practices sufficient to provide air transportation in a safe and efficient manner to xxxxx agencies and elected officials.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Here's part of the job description, however, individual performance evaluations include the word "pilot"

KNOWLEDGES, SKILLS AND ABILITIES REQUIRED

Commercial and non-commercial flight practices sufficient to provide air transportation in a safe and efficient manner to xxxxx agencies and elected officials.

Then, since part of his job description is "pilot", it is NOT incidental to his job, and he needs a second class medical.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Magic1872]

if he is getting paid to fly...dude needs a 2nd class medical...peroid.

 

[Purple Promisee]

This is flying for "compensation or hire"

This guy needs a commercial ticket/Class II (& part 135 certificated airplane):

The FAA, supported by the NTSB, liberally interprets flying as “for compensation or hire.” In defining “compensation or hire” the NTSB held "compensation need not be direct nor in the form of money. Goodwill is a form of prohibited compensation."

A private pilot who carried passengers for free as a favor for a friend (not his employer in any regard) had his certificate suspended for 270 days for violating FAR 61.113 – and they threw in FAR 91.13(a) (careless or reckless operation) for good measure. His buddy had a Super Bowl party for paying guests. The air transportation that the buddy had arranged fell through, so the pilot voluntarily flew the guests home from the party as a “favor.”

The guy in the situation PowerCurve describes would be liable under this ruling (IMHO). Beware of relying on the exceptions to 61.113(a) that are found in (b); also, the double whammy is that once the determination is made that the pilot was flying for “compensation or hire” the next question the FAA will turn to is whether the airplane was certificated under FAR Part 135 for commercial operations.

So what’s this guy to do if his employer expects him to perform this service? He must bring the law to their attention and refuse to break it. There are numerous federal and state statutes that prevent firing an employee who informs an employer of illegal activity or refuses to partake in illegal activity (which would include violating an FAR).

The fact that there seems to be no malice here (the employer isn’t trying to hide the fact that the guy is flying folks around for them, it’s just unaware of the FAR’s) will not shield the pilot from certificate action, nor the employer from possible hefty civil penalties (and possible political embarrassment, from the facts presented (agencies and elected officials)).

 

[PowerCurve]

Thanks for the replies. I too believe that if flying is part of your job, you are indeed being compensated for providing that service. All flights are operated as part 91.

If in doubt, do the right thing and get a 2nd class medical.