Commercial Pilot Limitations

[El Cid Av8or]

So I got me this new fam dancy commercial pilot certificate. Along with it I just got myself confused as heck about what the limitations are without getting into 121 and 135 ops.

I know I can fly pipeline & powerline patrols, fly an owner around in his plane, forrest fire spotting, etc. What I am concerned about is the scenic flights and aerial photography (which could be considered a scenic flight).

I was reading the part 135 stuff today and ran across 135.1.c which states "For the purpose of 135.x & y & z operator means any person or entity conducting non-stop sightseeing flights for compensation or hire in and airplane or rotorcraft that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute (why not nautical - that's what cross-country flights are measured in) mile radius of that airport."

I am interpretting this as a pilot must be 135 certificated (i.e. 1200 hours total time, etc) to take a person up in a Cessna 150 or 172 for a half-hour sightseeing/photo flight over Key West. A CFII/MEI doesn't have to have that kind of qualification to give instrument instruction in a King Air 90! Give me a break!

Someone please explain in common English terms (i.e. not what the FAA writes the regs in) what the rules pertaining to scenic and photo flights are (preferably pertaining to part 91 operations).

Thanks!

 

[Deftone45075]

I am interpretting this as a pilot must be 135 certificated (i.e. 1200 hours total time, etc) to take a person up in a Cessna 150 or 172 for a half-hour sightseeing/photo flight over Key West

Well, you wouldnotonly have to be 135 qualified, but the airplane would have to be on a 135 certificate.


As for sightseeing flights, i know they can be done 91 with certain exceptions. I'm not sure what they are and I don't have my trsty FAR/AIM handy, but i'll get back to you when i do.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Short answers

1. With a commercial pilot certificate you may do air tours within a 25 NM radius that start and end at the same airport with no stops in between under Part 91. You do not need a 135 operating certificate. But you do need a Part 135 drug program.

2. With a commercial pilot certificate you may do aerial photography flights under Part 91. You do not need a 135 operating certificate, so long as the flights begin and end at the same airport with no stops in between.


Long answers

1. Sightseeing flights within 25 NM which start and end at the same airport are exempt from operator certificate requirements under 119.1(e)(2). The reference in 135.1 only says that Part 135 has rules that apply to these flights. The specific rules (the x, y and z) in your post are the drug and drug-testing rules, not the rules that deal with operator certificates.

What this means is that you may engage in these types of flights under Part 91 with only a commercial pilot certificate and without a Part 135 operator certificate. But (and it's a BIG but), you must have an official Part 135 drug program in place. Ends up being cost-prohibitive for many.

2. Aerial photography is another category that is exempted from operator requirements in 119.1. You may take people on photo shoots without an operator's certificate. The "gotcha" here comes out of a 1990 FAA Legal Opinion. Broken down to it's bare essence, in order to qualify for the exemption and do the photo flights under Part 91, you have to land at the airport you started at. If you land somewhere else, "poof" — the flight becomes for the purpose of passenger carriage (taking someone from one place to another) and you're under Part 135.

 

[Deftone45075]

nevermind, now i don't have t.o get back to you.

 

[El Cid Av8or]

Thanks for the explanation. That clears it up really well. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going to get into any potential trouble if I take a realtor buddy up for some aerial photos of the land/houses he sells on occasion (the kind land/house that makes you wonder what the owner really does for a living).

I guess the real question would be if I take up a vacationer that is staying in a beach house and wants to get an air-to-sand photo of the house he/she and his/her family stayed in (i.e. the photography is not necessarily for "business or professional purposes").

 

[tarp]

THE LIST

(As midlifeflyer eloquently pointed out, FAR 119.1 is the governing rule between things 91 and things 121/135/125/etc/etc, etc.)

The rule states:

e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to --

(1) Student instruction;

(2) Nonstop sightseeing flights conducted with aircraft having a passenger seat configuration of 30 or fewer, excluding each crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of that airport; however, for nonstop sightseeing flights for compensation or hire conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50-2 of this part or 14 CFR part 119, as applicable, apply;

(3) Ferry or training flights;

(4) Aerial work operations, including --

(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;

(ii) Banner towing;

(iii) Aerial photography or survey;

(iv) Fire fighting;

(v) Helicopter operations in construction or repair work (but it does apply to transportation to and from the site of operations); and

(vi) Powerline or pipeline patrol;

(5) Sightseeing flights conducted in hot air balloons;

(6) Nonstop flights conducted within a 25-statute-mile radius of the airport of takeoff carrying persons or objects for the purpose of conducting intentional parachute operations.

(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of takeoff if --

(i) Not more than two passengers are carried in the helicopter in addition to the required flightcrew;

(ii) Each flight is made under day VFR conditions;

(iii) The helicopter used is certificated in the standard category and complies with the 100-hour inspection requirements of part 91 of this chapter;

(iv) The operator notifies the FAA Flight Standards District Office responsible for the geographic area concerned at least 72 hours before each flight and furnishes any essential information that the office requests;

(v) The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calendar year;

(vi) Each flight has been approved by the Administrator; and

(vii) Cargo is not carried in or on the helicopter;

 

[canadflyau]

I knew a photographer who would book the flights as instruction... he would practice a takeoff and a landing and in the middle of the flight the IP would do examples of turns about a point.. The photgrapher even brought a cheap little logbook. He said he wanted to get his lic. eventually.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I knew a photographer who would book the flights as instruction... he would practice a takeoff and a landing and in the middle of the flight the IP would do examples of turns about a point.. The photgrapher even brought a cheap little logbook. He said he wanted to get his lic. eventually.

...and CFIs do sightseeing flights under the guise of "introductory lessons." Probably won't get caught, but do it enough or have an unhappy customer or an incident and come to the attention of a FSDO and the certificate action won't be far behind.

 

[Iceman21]

I have been discussing this with the Chief Flight Instructor at my school.

Basically, you can't do diddily with you CAX. Taking up your realitor buddy to take a few pics of property would be illegal. Even though you don't solicite the flight by accepting his offer to pay you, you are "holding out".

If I came up to you and said I want you to fly me and 2 buddies in MY Bonanza to Lake Tahoe to go fishing. If you accept you are conducting an illegal operation unless you pay your pro rata share of the flight.

If I came up to you and asked you to fly me and 2 buddies to Lake Tahoe in a rental airplane that you provide, it is an illegal operation because you are holding out, unless you pay your pro rata share of the flight.

Reference AC 120-12A

 

[avbug]

I guess I didn't do diddly with my commercial certificate for the first five years of active flying either, then...despite flying a lot, working hard, and not even having an instrument rating...

I wish someone had told me.