Comments about USAFA

[maverick_fp00]

I was just wondering if I could get some comments from some people out there.....

I am 21, live in Florida, and going to school full time at a Community College. After this Spring '03 semester, I'll have 2 years of college out of the way. I know it is very difficult to get into the Academy, but for times sake, lets say I have a recommendation from a senator or congrssman (i forget who you have to have a letter from for a nomination) and I was accepted.

I am in Colorado Springs, Co for a few days and one of the people I was here with is a Lt. Col. so he got to show me all around the school and I got to talk to quite a few cadets out there. I absolutely love the campus and surroundings! Anyway, I have been a gymnast for over 10 years, and I stopped by the gym to talk to the coach, and he was telling me that he'd pay for me to come back up here for the weekend so he can show me around some more and talk with me more about being a gymnast for the Air Force Academy.

I was wondering if you all think it would be a waste of time to have to start all 4 years of college all over to get the awesome education from the AFA and get the chance to be an officer in the Air Force. I've heard a few peoples opinions, but I want to hear from a variety of people just to see if I can gain anymore information.

Thanks in advance!
Nick

 

[AutoTransfer]

In your situation, I would ask myself one simple question:

Do you want to be an Air Force Officer?

If Yes, then I would highly recommend attempting admission to the USAFA. Even with the two years you already have in, the education and status that comes with being an Academy grad would be well worth another four years. Many people who really want to go to the Academy spend 1,2 or more years of college attempting admission so that they can gladly start over at the Academy.

If No, then I would not recommend it. I've heard the first year is extremely difficult (academics and discipline). Supposedly the last three are no picnic either. Top notch education, bar none though.

I wanted to go to the USAFA when I graduated, but a series of circumstances prevented this from happening.

FWIW, If I were in your position and I could make it happen, I would be there in a minute.

Good Luck with your decision. I'm sure actual Academy grads and students could shed more light on the subject for you.

Tailwinds,
AT

 

[rainman_02]

I don't think it's a waste. I went to another school for a year before going to the Academy, and I haven't looked back since.

The opportunities are amazing, the people are great, you'll learn a lot, and the education is good too.

It wasn't easy, it wasn't always fun, but it will always be worth it. I mean, I'm 11 months past my graduation last year, and 9 weeks away from graduating UPT.


Along with AutoTransfer's good advice, there are a few things you should know.

1) The education is awesome, like you said, but don't ever think that it is free. It may not cost money, but it costs in other ways.

2) You're held to a higher standard that ROTC cadets and "normal" college students.

3) You'll make friends that you will keep forever.

4) You'll be part of the growing "Long Blue Line."


I think my AIM address is listed below this post, but if not, I can be reached at rainmans6t9 on AIM when I'm around. I'll gladly answer any questions you have.

 

[Hootie9750]

There was a kid who was two years younger than me but still was a starter my senior year bball who I became pretty good friends with and is in his freshman year there. He seems to like it and I agree with him that it is a top notch education. Im just wondering if going there instantly turns you into an @sshole? He was back in town last week for some basketball tournement that we were both in and this is how our conversation went.
cadet: hey man did you end up getting your ppl
me: im flight instructing
cadet: oh, that sucks
me: uh, so you get to fly yet at the academy
cadet: no, i'll worry about that when I get to Supt.
me: yeah, im working on getting my sh*t together to try to get a guard slot.
cadet: oh, those are for retired active duty guys. you didn't know?
maybe if you have some good lor's, if we need people (like he IS the af now) you could maybe go to ots.
me: yeah I got some colonel rec's one who's an f-15 guy
cadet: colonels are decent but what you really should get is a one or two star general to help you, they really can get stuff done (really dumb@ss?)
me: so what do you want to get out of supt.
cadet: Im going to be getting the f22.
me: thats a cool plane (thinking to myself how a person can act like he has something that is 6 years away already locked up, no questions.)

I went to a bball camp when I was in HS at the usafa and had an AWESOME time and loved the campus, but I had already screwed up my chances by my freshman and sophmore gpa. If everyone there turns from former good guys to jagoffs I am glad I have had my fun at the state university. I doubt though that he is the standard. good luck

 

[HueyPilot]

USAFA

"Retired active duty guys"? Uh, I think if you retire, you're done.

I don't think that kind of attitude is just associated with USAFA grads. I've run into all types of newbie 2Lts and ROTC/AFA cadets who just *know* that they will get a F-15 or something "cool" out of SUPT. Problem is 70% of those guys will wind up being America's newest KC-135 or E-3 pilot, they just don't know it yet.

I'd add my .02 cents. I thought about going to the academy. I decided not to. Instead I did ROTC for a year, dropped out and signed up to be a Warrant Officer in the Army Guard. Did that, got fed up with the Army, and did OTS. I know a number of USAFA grads. Some really liked the experience. Others thought it was good, but were undecided if they'd do it all over again. And you had another bunch who hated "The Zoo".

As for me, I have no regrets about what I did, and I never wish I had done the Academy. Just me, but I enjoyed being a "normal" college student, even though I had to pay for it.

 

[AlbieF15]

There are tons of stories of guys who were "too cool for school" getting nailed at UPT...regardless of commission source.

A former enlisted guy in my ROTC det had tons of F-16 paraphanalia, and talked all the time like his "Viper" was secure. He spent the next few years after UPT in a WC-135.

Another UGA guy I remember showed up at CBM with a fly F16 liscense plate....and another tanker pilot was born.

Lots of gouge on other threads on the right "focus" in UPT...I won't repeat it here. What I will say as an FTU IP is I could care less where you got your commission or where you went to UPT (ie Sheppard, Pensacola, or whatever...) All I care about is your ability and your attitude--and poor skills in either area mean a tough program will be even harder. I haven't seen any major trends in success or failure based on commission source or UPT base.

As for college...well...you follow your own heart. If I could go TWO years, then be flying in the AF verses going 4 years and getting abused...well...I think you are nuts if you go to the Zoo at this point. However...I'm sure there are those who would disagree. You can get your wings after UPT and ROTC and fly to Colorado all you want...maybe fly for Frontier or United one day way down the road after your successful AF career. I don't think the idyllic setting you saw in C-Springs would seem nearly as nice when you are playing cadet games and wishing you were already at UPT.

 

[HoursHore]

With two years of college, you should go to a four year school, join ROTC, and then become an officer. You might even get that last year paid for if you do well enough both in grades and ROTC. And don't limit your self to the AF either. Navy Rotc pays just as well.
Talk to an officers programs recruiter, Af, Marine and Navy. Depending on your grades, something could be worked out.

The Academies only make a difference if you make the military a career, and even then performance in your duties is still the primary factor, not where you went to school.

 

[HueyPilot]

More USAFA...

I agree with the above posts. But again, this is just me talking. You have two choices that would get you to UPT with minimal pain....going to a college with ROTC and doing the 2 year program, or graduating outright and getting an OTS pilot slot.

If you choose to go the USAFA route, you will spend 4 years in college, then another year or so waiting for your UPT slot. That's an extra 2-3 years more than if you went the other two routes. And alot less pain too. Yes, USAFA gives you a great education. But it comes at a price. They own your life for 4 years. And the first couple years really suck (unless you like basic training-type environments).

I'd say if you were in high school, go for it. But I can't recommend that route now, all things considered. As for career prospects, there are many general officers and colonels who were ROTC and OTS grads. Someone once asked why there weren't many OTS grads above the rank of O-6, and I replied that over half the OTS grads were typically prior-enlisted folks who already had a number of years in (like me). When they hit 20 years of service, they might be a Major, instead of a Lt Col or Colonel.

There are times when USAFA might be a deciding factor for you for promotions, etc. But trust me, it's pretty far down the list of discriminators. Job performance, education and other things weigh much more heavily.

As for those guys who just know they've got their dream airplane locked up prior to even setting foot on a UPT base...take my class for example:

Case #1: I went to IFT with one guy, who swore he wouldn't settle for anything except an F-16 to Aviano. He just KNEW that was where he was headed. Now he's flying C-17s, and he loves it. Come to find out, he didn't really like pulling g's and flying upside down. He likes flying, but he discovered he'd much rather enjoy cruising to new destinations than spending an afternoon flying a BFM sortie.

Case #2: A female in my class was convinced that she would join the elite ranks of a female fighter pilot. She even talked of TPS (Test Pilot School)...never mind that she didn't have an engineering degree, or that she had yet to touch a T-37. She was so bent on flying fighters that the guys in the class enjoyed getting her wound up by teasing her she'd make a great AWACS pilot. Well...she never even made it that far. She went home for a long weekend, and came back a married woman. She SIE'd a few days later, deciding to be a good wife to the EC-130 pilot she had married. Last I heard, she was working in contracting.

Case #3: Yet another student in my class also had fighters set on his scope. Fighters or bust was the thinking. He often said that if he didn't get his fighter, he'd say to heck with the USAF, give them the minimum time, and get out. Well...he didn't make the cut into T-38s, and got a T-1 instead. His attitude went sour, and he moaned and groaned about how lame his new found profession of "heavy driver" was in his mind. The T-1 IPs noticed this, and his dedication to study floundered. He felt there was no use in trying hard anymore. He hooked a checkride, and did average on the other two. He was actually a pretty decent student in Tweets....I figure that he probably barely missed the cut for Talons...had there been one more, I'm confident it would have been his. But instead he became a mediocre T-1 student and is flying KC-135s to this day. He had the ability to do well and perhaps get a C-17, but he gave up.

Case #4: One guy in my class was this short little dude who never talked trash quite like some of the other students. He seemed sharp, and indeed he was. Come track select, he didn't really know what he wanted to do. He thought flying C-17s and C-130s was cool, and he thought fighters would be cool too. He finally decided he'd just put down T-38s first and see what happened. He got a Talon. Then in T-38s, while the other students jockeyed for position, he quietly studied hard, kept his mouth shut, and flew superbly. At drop night, he got an F-15C, and eventually graduated as the T-38 Distinguished Graduate. All that from a little short guy who spent most of UPT undecided as to what he wanted to do, and kept his options open.

 

[maverick_fp00]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I just wanted to hear from a variety of people. I would really hate to start all over and when I'm a sophomore at the Academy, wishing I was at UPT or somewhere else. Gotta fly back to Florida in the morning.... thanks again!

-Nick

 

[Hootie9750]

hey huey, is that normal for a usafa grad to wait a whole year to go to supt? I thought they would get the royal treatment.

 

[BeachBum]

Guys from the Academy have UPT slots anywhere from a few weeks to a year from graduation. A lot of that depends on whether they have done IFT yet to get their FAA private pilot certificate. I know one guy who had his license before he came to the Academy that starts at Shepard within a month of graduation. Those that have the later dates are given time to finish IFT first, along with the free sixty days of graduation leave and some casual duty.

Maverick, I would strongly recommend the academy. But unless you are really motivated to do this, then you are probably too late. It doesn't sound like you applied for the class coming in this year, so the earliest you will graduate is 2008. That's a long ways off. Guys older than you have come to the Academy and done great, but I'm not sure I would make it in that situation. The Academy has a ton of great opportunities and will give you a much better chance at getting a pilot slot than the other commissioning sources, but it definitely comes at a price. Just something to think about.

 

[Falconjet]

USAFA?

Now, I didn't go to the Air Force Academy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night so I feel as though I can shed some light on your question. Actually, I have been to the AFA a few times and it is a beautiful campus and area of the country. I graduated from a different service academy and I think the answer may depend on your finances. If you can afford to put yourself through college on your own I think you should do so. You could then go to OCS (or whatever the AF calls its officer candidate school) and hopefully get into flight training right after that. You would be flying for the AF at least 2 years sooner than if you went to AFA. Thats 2 more years of being a Captain at a major airline down the road (IF that is your ultimate goal) after a 20+ year career or the fullfillment of your service obligation. Either way its a more direct path and probably a much more fun way to actually experience college. (In no way should going to a service academy be compared with actually attending college! -for many reasons) If I had been aware of the different ways to obtain a commission and eventual flight orders in the various services there is no way I would have put up with 4 years of "life" at the academy to get where I eventually wanted to be. I just didn't know any better. The fact that you are pondering the options demonstrates that you are aware of some of the options out there that might make more sense, be more fun, and more direct path to your ultimate goal.

Best of luck! FJ

 

[HueyPilot]

USAFA casual status

I graduated OTS in March of 2000. I then got assigned to Air University at Maxwell AFB for casual status to do IFT. My UPT class date was in July of 2000. There was another casual Lieutenant who was doing IFT, who was also a USAFA grad. He had graduated in May of 1999, and his UPT class date was August of 2000! So his wait was about 15 months.

I ran into him later at Fairchild. I had attended SERE in November 2001, since they some how failed to get my a slot right after UPT graduation in July 2001. The USAFA grad I was talking about was in my RT (Resistance Training) class, and he had just graduated UPT a few weeks prior in October 2001. USAFA grads don't do the entire SERE course...they just go to RT since they get the survival portion done at the Academy.

Soooo...if you were to go to the Academy (and like one poster said, you haven't applied for the next year), you might not see UPT until 2009! And worse, you wouldn't be an operational USAF pilot until 2010! Yikes!

If you finished college in 2 years and got an OTS slot or got a UPT slot through ROTC, you could be an operational USAF pilot by 2006-2007 timeframe.

Now, if you've just got a bug up your pants and for whatever reason really really want to be a grad of the Zoo, go for it. But I think it won't pay off for you, in many ways.

 

[FastCargo]

The USAFA...

Maverick,

Having graduated from the zoo back in '90, and being a current SUPT instructor, here is my .02.

If you decide to do it now, it's going to be a LONG time before you see a weapon system, assuming of course you don't exceed the age limit. And as with everything else, timing is everything in terms of pilot slots, no matter which commissioning source you use.

The short of it is, I would try for ROTC or OTS. The USAFA is definitely an experience...but I don't know if it would be worth it having already done a significant amount of college.

That's all the advice I have...good luck in whatever you decide.

FastCargo