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Comair MEC recall...

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What I still do not understand is why Comair pilots are voting for this or why the MEC would endorse a TA that is concessionary. Any light would be appreciated.
If Delta is going exit bankruptcy in April or May, why not just vote down the TA and fight it out once out of bankruptcy whereas the hands are not so tied by the courts? Or does the status quo apply here once contract negotiations begin? Could Comair drag it out as long as ASA has in that regard?

Only curious how this would work.

Disclaimer: I don’t have all the answers and I don’t know all of the answers. I am not an active pilot, I am retired. I can’t suggest how Comair pilots should vote but I do believe that they should vote and hope that every one of them will. Why I believe that is just a personal opinion.

You asked why Comair pilots are voting and why the MEC would endorse this concessionary TA.

First off – in my opinion this is being called a “Tentative Agreement” but that really isn’t what it is. This is a proposed bankruptcy settlement. It’s pretty much established that Comair pilots or the Comair MEC don’t “agree” with any of this. The choice is between settling the bankruptcy claims of the company or not settling them and letting the company do what it wants to do and impose its own terms. There is no agreement in any of this. If approved it will be a coerced settlement from the company forced by the courts. Let’s keep that clear.

Knowns & Unknowns:

The bankruptcy court has granted the company the right to impose specific changes to the Comair pilots’ CBA. Comair pilots know what those changes would be.

The bankruptcy court has enjoined Comair pilots and the union from exercising self-help of any kind in protest of those changes - if and when the company imposes those changes. We cannot strike. Should we declare war against an enemy with WMD when we have been disarmed by the courts? Someone said – “never bring a knife to a gun fight”, but maybe we’re better with knives than the enemy is with WMD.

If Delta imposes the terms authorized by the court, those terms will not go away when Delta and Comair emerge from bankruptcy. They will remain in place until they are negotiated away under the RLA.

The imposed conditions do not erase the contract; they just change some of the terms of that contract. Therefore the “amendable date” does not go away. The earliest amendable date of the status quo appears to be May 1, 2007. If that is true, the imposed conditions would be in place and remain in place while negotiations take place.

Obviously such negotiations would be acrimonious in the extreme and the chance of progress is next to nil. Given the NMB, they could literally go on forever. The make up of the NMB is not going to change until a new POTUS is elected. If that individual is another Republican, the anti-labor attitude of the NMB will not change.

We know from experience that in good times it takes 3 years. How long it would take in these circumstances is anybody’s guess. Meanwhile, we would have to work under the imposed terms. No one knows how long it will take but we do know that it won’t happen any time soon.

Keep in mind that Comair pilots are NOT negotiating against Comair management. They are negotiating against the management of Delta Air Lines, directly. Don’t overlook what that management was able to do to the Delta pilots’ PWA. Do not overlook what UAL management was able to do to the UAL CBA, and USAirways and NW Airlines. Do not overlook what happened to ASA negotiations when that company was sold – and that’s outside of bankruptcy. They’ve been at it more than 4 years and the NMB will not release them.

Now consider the power of Delta Air Lines vs the power of Comair pilots – there are only 1500 of us. Do not forget that, in bankruptcy, all of those airline’s respective managements were able to gut the CBA’s and extract billions in concessions from the affected pilots, including the theft (except NW) of their pensions. Every one of those pilot groups eventually voted on and accepted a bankruptcy settlement. None of them did so because they wanted to or liked the terms. What do you think their reason(s) were for voting?

We could appeal the judge’s decision; both the 1113 decision and the injunction decision, separately or together. How long would that take? No one knows; it could be years and it would cost a ton of money. What are the chances of winning an appeal? No one really knows but the best legal advice is that we would probably lose. Then what? Back to 4 or 5 or more years of trench warfare while we work under the imposed conditions? What is the cost/benefit of that?

Would an appeal stay the imposition of the court’s decision? Probably not. If it did would Delta just wait for the outcome indefinitely or would they continue to implement the gradual destruction of Comair [which they have already been actively doing]?

We also know the terms of the proposed settlement (TA). Are they good? Compared to our contract they are not. However, compared to the terms of existing contracts or working conditions in airlines of similar size, they are still considerably better than many. For example, there is no comparison between the MES contract and the CMR contract. There would still be no comparison if the settlement is approved. The settlement does NOT put us at the bottom of the barrel.

We know where our company is today. We do not know where it will be in 2011. There are 4 possibilities: 1) out of business; 2) worse off; 3) the same; 4) better than now. If you pick #’s 1 or 2 – what does it matter? If you pick #’s 3 or 4 is that a better environment to improve the then status quo?

It is up to Comair pilots to decide whether they want to confront all the unknowns and the negative knowns or whether they want to live with an undesirable – but known – quantity until they have a reasonable chance of improving it.

Comair pilot leaders are sometimes unpopular for a variety of reasons; that is par for the course. However, they are experienced. The Comair Negotiating Committee has 10 years of experience (each, individually) – at the bargaining table. I believe that is more than any other airline’s pilot negotiating committee but whether or not that is so is moot. The point is these people are not ‘cherrys’ – they’ve been in the arena for a long time.

Does that mean they are always right? NO. Does it mean that they do know what they’re doing? YES.

Our NC has recommended that we vote on this bankruptcy settlement agreement (TA). Our MEC has endorsed their recommendation and the proposed settlement and, in turn, recommended a vote to ratify or not ratify. In my personal opinion, both of those decisions are wise.

I know the negotiators and the MEC Officers personally. They are Comair pilots with a “vested interest” in Comair and Comair pilots. They will have to live with and under this settlement, if it passes, just like every other Comair pilot that makes the personal decision to stay at Comair.

They are not infallible by any means but they, more than anyone else outside our pilot group, whether in ALPA or not in ALPA, are dedicated to defend the interests of Comair pilots to the best of their ability. Probably they have not satisfied everyone in the process of trying; but, they are probably the only people in all of this mess that are not in it with the ulterior motive of screwing Comair pilots. They each have just as much to lose as any Comair pilot. In fact they are senior enough to where they all have more to lose than 50% of the pilot group. Sure that affects their decisions – why shouldn’t it?

None of them “like” this settlement and they’re not trying to sell it with “spin”. They all know what it will cost Comair pilots and what it will cost them individually. Nevertheless they have recommended that Comair pilots should vote on this issue and express their will. Voting is the only way that all Comair pilots can express their collective and individual decisions.

The pilot group has been fully informed in minute detail. They have all the numbers and all the language in full. They also have all the comparisons to the contracts of other carriers like Comair. They are fully informed with respect to every aspect of our current situation and the TA. It is now time for the pilots to decide their own future.

That is why Comair pilots are going to vote. I’ve probably said a whole lot more than you wanted to know, but when you ask a question to which you don’t already know the answer, that’s the risk you take.

Best wishes.
 
Mesa operates their 900's with more than 76 seats believe(isn't it 86 or something). The scales aren't really comparable, because if we ever did get 77+ seaters at CMR we would have to negotiate the payrates per the TA. Lets hope we never get anything more than 76 seats.

This is true. Comair does have a rate for the -900, but those aircraft must be configured for 76 seats or fewer. Unfortunately the rate is the same as the -700 for the next three years. My original statement was based on only aircraft type, I failed to consider the 76 seat limitation.
 
This is true. Comair does have a rate for the -900, but those aircraft must be configured for 76 seats or fewer. Unfortunately the rate is the same as the -700 for the next three years. My original statement was based on only aircraft type, I failed to consider the 76 seat limitation.

You keep saying that the rate for the -700 is the same as the rate for the -705. Are you talking about the CMR rate? The paper work that I have shows 2 different rates for these 2 types. They are NOT the same on my papers. What am I doing wrong?

I think everyone knows that the 900 and the 705 are the same airframe but when the configuration is frozen and 76 seats it is a different designation and a different revenue stream. The 900 seats 86 passengers.

MES gets its top CA rate by stretching the longevity to 20 years. You can't compare CMR's 18 yr rate to MES's 20 yr rate. You have to compare 18 to 18.

Also, Mesa inflates its CA rate by not paying the FO's. They take the money out of the right seat and put it in the left seat. Others do that too. That's robbing Peter to pay Paul and it divides the pilot group. Maybe MES & others upgrade in 2 yrs but CMR sure doesn't. I'm glad we were able to not do that.
 
Surplus1, the rates originally published for the 900 were wrong. They are indeed the same as the 700 until 2011. They have since been corrected on the ALPA website (or so I have been told) and some of the printouts.
 
I think everyone knows that the 900 and the 705 are the same airframe but when the configuration is frozen and 76 seats it is a different designation and a different revenue stream. The 900 seats 86 passengers.

The -705 is certified for a maximum of 75 seats, which is why Comair will never see one. If Comair gets larger airplanes they will be -900s with 76 seats (what Skywest flies now).

Skyslug addressed the payrates. The correct rates are on pp 24-25 of the LOA language.
 
Also, Mesa inflates its CA rate by not paying the FO's. They take the money out of the right seat and put it in the left seat. Others do that too. That's robbing Peter to pay Paul and it divides the pilot group. Maybe MES & others upgrade in 2 yrs but CMR sure doesn't. I'm glad we were able to not do that.

Agreed. FO rates should not be negotiated. They should be 60% of Captain pay, period. Interestingly, Comair MEC only managed to get 59.7%. I don't know what the 0.3% difference is.
 
This is true. Comair does have a rate for the -900, but those aircraft must be configured for 76 seats or fewer. Unfortunately the rate is the same as the -700 for the next three years. My original statement was based on only aircraft type, I failed to consider the 76 seat limitation.

Ok I gotcha.
 
Why do you feel that way? I'd really like to know.

Becuase that means that Mainline gave up more scope. I want to have some kind of career progression. I like working at Comair, but they are making it into a place that you can't really retire from.
 
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Surplus1...pay attention

What caused me to make my first post in this thread was the remark by a pilot quoting J C’s remark of "I have a vested interest in Comair..." - then following it up with his own incredulous – “What?”. That pilot, whoever he may be, has no understanding of J C’s comment and no understanding of what used to be “the Comair culture”. If he did he would not have followed up with – “What?” It got my attention and that is why I responded. In reality my response was mild (deliberately) compared to what I was really thinking when I started to write.

Continued

Let's get some facts straight here...I was there when JC made that comment. Were you there? Do you have any idea what the remainder of that qoute was? How about what he actually meant? Or are you guessing? I would assume you are guessing because "supposedly" you're retired and seem to be happily humming along in Florida. If you can finish the rest of the qoute I will be happy to conceide to you and bow out gracefully. I suspect you can't and won't. Sad.

As for the "what?"...that is my response to someone who says something stupid. As you notice I used it when you implied I had no understanding and no vested interest in Comair. I don't care what you think...but I do have a vested interest in Comair...I work here and I have my family to support by the duties I perform here at Comair. How can you tell I have no vested interest in Comair? Is this another, "I know everything and I will amaze you by spouting off all of my knowledge about something or someone I don't even know."? When you can prove to me you know who I am and what I am all about I will once again conceide and bow out gracefully. Sadly, I suspect you can't and won't.

I grow tired of guys like you...we...the current pilot group at Comair are living this current nightmare. We are all well aware of the problems and obstacle which we are facing at this current juncture in our Comair careers and for myself could careless about the "has beens" or "the old Comair Culture" you so fondly refer too. My concern is for my family and being able to provide for them...not some "idea" that some know-it-all spews out to the masses like gospel. Sad to say.

My last point to hammer home...don't use the phrase "served with," you didn't serve with anyone here at Comair. Did you take an oath? Was being an employee Comair a sacrifice that I am not aware of? They were your fellow employees. Even your time as MEC Chairman does not justify the term. After 21 years in the military I find it offensive when guys cling to that term and improperly use it...just to show their "espirit de corps." That term is reserved for those who gave an oath and served for a higher cause than working at Comair. I see you have military listed in your profile so you should know and understand what I mean without further explaination.

Don't you ever make the mistake again that you know anything about me or who I am. You're sad.

By the way I have been to two of the roadshows for the new TA. Just as I expected cash incentive and KoolAid. Where you there? At either one? If not...you know where this is going...
 

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