Comair FO leaves hospital for rehab

[Rogue5]

Why the heck was this moved out of the Regionals forum?!

Come on Mods, lay off!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Yo... Prop!!! S.H. passed his checkride!! I know he really thanks you for not bidding back EWN!!!


Hows the new home????

If I could just get some of those old farts to retire, I'd be there in a heartbeat! Tell S.H. I said congrats.

I was actually down there the other day taking the wife and livestock (kids) to the beach... Brought a tear to my eye.

Now back to your regularly scheduled flame fest!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Yo, Surf!! Prop is getting hit on by Latina cashiers here at the store in NY...

Anyways, we're taking real good care of him up here. He will be a changed man, in so many wrong ways, when he gets back to EWN. :nuts:

73

After what you and J.W. have subjected me to in Bev's Flushing Pleasure Palace... You are right, I never will be the same.

Oh yeah, and that Latina cashier at the Trade Fair? Hey, she was all OVER it!

How's the motorino?

 

[WSurf]

Too Funny!!! So Prop........ are you holding one in your mouth now????
Don't tell me you wake up on your overnights with your Boxers on backwards and a hicky on the back of your neck!!! Say it ain't sooooo!!!

 

[Rally]

I think the problem is Boomer2 is that everyone is sugar coating this and your not. Your being direct.

He wont be able to fly due to crew negligence. Insurance would have a fit. I hope he continues to fly. I dunno about 135 maybe. I'm sure this accident will go on his record and being pilot error, I dunno if he will ever be able to get a job. What insurance company for whatever 135/121 company would hire someone with that on his record. Maybe I'll be wrong. Its extremely unfortunate! I hope he has a speedy recovery

I feel awful for everyone. Wished this never happened!

An accident is a chain of events. This could have happened to any of us, investigation will reveal many things that lead up to this accident. I realize that he partially to blame but many people here have made mistakes. I have been in two airplanes that had a similar airport setup and one of them actually started to takeoff before I aborted. One of the problems with airline is that it is SO routine. Anybody here ever run a red light? I hope he gets back on the horse, I know we have alot of atheists on this board but there is probably a reason he survived. I guarantee he will never make the same mistake again.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Too Funny!!! So Prop........ are you holding one in your mouth now????
Don't tell me you wake up on your overnights with your Boxers on backwards and a hicky on the back of your neck!!! Say it ain't sooooo!!!

Overnights? LGA? Nope... Nary a one. The crashpad 12 nights a month is about the best I can do.

I Haven't been forceably subjected to any horrible things yet... But these AA mainline guys I'm staying with are awefully strange. They wear very tight pants, tapered shirts and stare at me when I bend down to pick up my bag. I sleep with one eye open all the time and refuse the beverages and candy they constantly offer.

 

[time builder]

I think this guy has bigger issues than just his career. Either way, its going to scar him for life (both physically and mentally), and I don't think anyone needs to add insult to injury.
If he gets back on the horse, more power to him, I wouldn't mind flying with someone with that kind of ambition. Everyone makes mistakes, some learn, some cover up, some resign. Its all about how you react.

 

[WSurf]

Overnights? LGA? Nope... Nary a one. The crashpad 12 nights a month is about the best I can do.

I Haven't been forceably subjected to any horrible things yet... But these AA mainline guys I'm staying with are awefully strange. They wear very tight pants, tapered shirts and stare at me when I bend down to pick up my bag. I sleep with one eye open all the time and refuse the beverages and candy they constantly offer.

Dude, your killing me!!!!!!!!!! Too f'in funny!!!!

 

[OrionFE]

Are you referring to the DC-8 at Gitmo? I beleve that was Buffalo Airways if I am not mistaken. The FO was - or is a POI at ASA. Was in the brief on my type-ride on the RJ.

DC-8 at Gitmo was a Kalitta crew.

 

[GVFlyer]

You have to believe in the indominable human spirit. Douglas Bader was a one-legged fighter ace!

http://members.chello.be/kurt.weygantt/worldwariiaces.index.html_douglasbader.htm

GV

 

[Fearless Tower]

The sadest thing would be if he does'nt get back on the horse. Do what the FO from the ASA brasilia did and continue to fly.

Are you guys talking about this guy???:

http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR92-03.pdf

If so, that's got to be one of the greatest examples of getting back on the horse that bucked you off!

 

[pilot125]

Are you kidding me?

I don't usually post (I'm more of a troller)- but I couldn't help myself. Imagine this: this guy gets his job back (somehow), or gets hired by another regional, the airplane is being boarded, and somebody somehow recognizes this poor guy sitting in the cockpit (don't ask me how- just play along) and screams out, "Oh my god, aren't you that guy who killed 49 people in that crash 2 years ago!"

At which point, this poor pilot replies, "Um........yes, I am THAT guy. But I've learned my lesson, and I promise you, it WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! Have a nice flight, sir."

Cmon guys!!! Now I know that that is a bit of an oversimplified example, but you get my point. This is ridiculous! He will never again be a paid professional pilot ANYWHERE! He should never step foot into an airplane again, unless he is a PAX or flying his own little Cessna or Piper or whatever.

Don't try and tell me it wasn't just his fault and that there were other factors involved and blah blah blah. 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! And as far as we know at this time (until the official NTSB report is completed), this poor pilot played a major part in their death.

So enough is enough, I wish him well in rehab, but he should never fly professionally again. If this happened to any one of us, the same would be said. If you're involved in something similar to this, you NEVER fly professionally again. Sorry, life is cruel, I know we all make mistakes all the time.......maybe even every day. And 99.9999999% of the time, nobody dies. In fact, there are rarely any consequences to those tiny mistakes. But this one time for this one pilot, THERE WAS! People lost there life. Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

I'm sorry, but this guy doesn't fly anymore. I repeat, this guy doesn't fly anymore. His flying career is ruined, his future as an airline pilot is ruined, and now it's time for a career change.

It's OK to have compassion for this guy, he's been through h-ll and back, and I wish him well, and a speedy recovery, but let's be real, he does not belong in the cockpit of any airplane. Yes, he may have learned a very valuable lesson in safety, and he may very well be one of the safest and most aware aviators in the industry because of the experience he has been through, but it just DOES NOT MATTER. This was too big of a mistake, too horrific of an outcome because of his actions (along with his cohort), too many people whose hopes and dreams were shattered that morning......................

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

F%ck You And The Horse You Rode In On. You need to be banned right now!! A$$hole.

 

[Rally]

Are you guys talking about this guy???:

http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR92-03.pdf

If so, that's got to be one of the greatest examples of getting back on the horse that bucked you off!

Your a punk. No I believe the ASA accident we are talking about is the accident were the propeller came off the engine and got stuck on the wing. Those guys did about as good as a job that could have been done.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Your a punk. No I believe the ASA accident we are talking about is the accident were the propeller came off the engine and got stuck on the wing. Those guys did about as good as a job that could have been done.

Why am I a punk???

I just realized that I linked the wrong NTSB report...I meant to link the one that lost the prop blade.

 

[Rally]

Let me know where he is in rehab and I will personally visit him and cheer him on like you guys should.

 

[Waldom]

You have to believe in the indominable human spirit. Douglas Bader was a one-legged fighter ace!

http://members.chello.be/kurt.weygantt/worldwariiaces.index.html_douglasbader.htm

GV

Actually, Douglas Bader lost both legs in the crash of a Gloster Gladiator before going on to become an ace, Squadron Leader, and P.O.W. during World War II.

 

[Fugawe]

im not trying to be crude here or speculate but does anyone think hed be able to get a medical and return to 121 ops with a prosthetic leg?

You'd be VERY surprised to know the 'issues' many 121 pilots are flying with. So would the pax in the jets.

I have tremendous respect for anyone who can recover from a physical ailment, rehab, get their medical back after surgeries, prosthetic limbs, etc. The scary ones are flying around with serious mental issues -- bipolar, manic anger, sex-change operations/hormone therapy, sleep deprivation, bankruptcy pressures, double alimonies, nasty divorce proceedings, etc.

We all have problems, fortunately with 2 pilot ops generally at least one is stable (hopefully).

Your best pilot might be the one with the prosthetic. They've worked harder than most to get back to the cockpit.


Fugawe

 

[Guitar rocker]

I don't usually post (I'm more of a troller)- but I couldn't help myself. Imagine this: this guy gets his job back (somehow), or gets hired by another regional, the airplane is being boarded, and somebody somehow recognizes this poor guy sitting in the cockpit (don't ask me how- just play along) and screams out, "Oh my god, aren't you that guy who killed 49 people in that crash 2 years ago!"

At which point, this poor pilot replies, "Um........yes, I am THAT guy. But I've learned my lesson, and I promise you, it WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! Have a nice flight, sir."

Cmon guys!!! Now I know that that is a bit of an oversimplified example, but you get my point. This is ridiculous! He will never again be a paid professional pilot ANYWHERE! He should never step foot into an airplane again, unless he is a PAX or flying his own little Cessna or Piper or whatever.

Don't try and tell me it wasn't just his fault and that there were other factors involved and blah blah blah. 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! 49 PEOPLE WERE KILLED! And as far as we know at this time (until the official NTSB report is completed), this poor pilot played a major part in their death.

So enough is enough, I wish him well in rehab, but he should never fly professionally again. If this happened to any one of us, the same would be said. If you're involved in something similar to this, you NEVER fly professionally again. Sorry, life is cruel, I know we all make mistakes all the time.......maybe even every day. And 99.9999999% of the time, nobody dies. In fact, there are rarely any consequences to those tiny mistakes. But this one time for this one pilot, THERE WAS! People lost there life. Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

I'm sorry, but this guy doesn't fly anymore. I repeat, this guy doesn't fly anymore. His flying career is ruined, his future as an airline pilot is ruined, and now it's time for a career change.

It's OK to have compassion for this guy, he's been through h-ll and back, and I wish him well, and a speedy recovery, but let's be real, he does not belong in the cockpit of any airplane. Yes, he may have learned a very valuable lesson in safety, and he may very well be one of the safest and most aware aviators in the industry because of the experience he has been through, but it just DOES NOT MATTER. This was too big of a mistake, too horrific of an outcome because of his actions (along with his cohort), too many people whose hopes and dreams were shattered that morning......................

125, lets say that you are driving along in your F-150 and accidentally run into a school bus and kill 3 children. According to your theory, you should never be allowed to drive again, is that right? Otherwise someone might recoignize you driving your car again and say, "look, theres that a$$hole who ran into those 3 innocent children and shattered their lives."

Point is, we are all human and we all make mistakes. We as humans have accidentally hit others and killed them in vehicles, doctors have accidentally killed patients and the list goes on. To sit here and tell us all that the comair FO should never fly again is really shameful, ignorant and downright arrogant. 125, just remember, any one of us could be involved in an accident tomorrow that kills people. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to live with that, but your life must go on. I agree with another person here who said it's all about how hard you work to come back to doing what you so loved and if you get back on the horse, you'll be a stronger and better person in doing so.

I would support this FO's decision if he decided to come back to aviation.

 

[charter dog]

I just hope he isn't a member of this board!

 

[Fugawe]

Guitar rocker,

I understand your idea -- accountability. It is sorely lacking in society today ........everyone's a victim. Like Tim Foley now citing his abuse by a priest 50 years ago (?) as an excuse.

But.........to crucify this FO before any investigation closure is flat wrong. It appears pilot error is a major factor, but too many times we've seen mitigating factors.

--hypothetical--
So now this FO sits in the cockpit and someone boards screaming 'aren't you the FO who killed 49 people...........?' He may try to reply that he was the FO but the investigation proves they were misled by heading errors, controller mistakes, airfield mismarkings, etc. Doesn't matter what he says, the media and fellow pilots (like this forum) have already crucified this guy.

If you have the flying time your avatar info indicates, then you've been in many 'square corners' in your flying. You know that 'but for the grace of God' you've not bent metal or worse.

If he is incompetent, and fully at fault, let the boards decide. To pre-judge and vilify does no one any good, and only heightens the uneducated and knee-jerk media and public reaction against pilots.

Fugawe

 

[Guitar rocker]

Look at the taxi time between the terminal and where 26 lies at LEX....really short taxi. Lets say the cptn taxis out and FO is heads down and busy running all the checklists.......by the time he is done, verifies that the final is clear and says it's all complete, he looks up and they are on the runway and the captain is ready to roll. The FO was just doing his job and the checklists....and thought that the captain was on 22. That short of a taxi, he cant have his head out of the aircraft the entire time watching the captain or where they are going. And a lot of times when we fly with somone, we do assume that when your heads down that the other guy knows where he is going as a result of previously being at that airport or after discussing the taxi route before taxiing. I do know that I have been in situations exactly like that as I am sure that we all have.

But, we cant just rampantly say that the FO should never fly again. Lets wait for the final word from the NTSB so we know exactly what happened in this case.

 

[Fugawe]

Guitar rocker,

My bad -- you and I are on the same page here, I was replying to 'pilot125' that you quoted in your post.

Good points you make too.


Fugawe

 

[pilot125]

Guitar rocker and Fugawe,

I do understand where you guys are coming from, I reallly do. And remember, I'm just offering my opinions and beliefs about this subject. I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong- I'm guessing that half the members on this forum would agree with me, and half would agree with you.

The whole school bus example, though, doesn't sit well with me. If a bus driver is involved in an accident and it kills 3 kids, and it was just that, an accident that could NOT be avoided, then OK, he/she may be able to return to their job. But, if that driver is found negligent, then no, that person does NOT belong behind the wheel of a bus that carries children, or even adults- NEVER again. It would be time for a career change. Should he be able to keep his driver's license, sure. Guess we could go back and forth on this example, so I'll just move on to my next point.

Accidents, such as this Comair one, happen. We all know this. If it is found that it was more than likely an unavoidable accident where the crew was facing impossible or near impossible odds of performing the task at hand, then so be it, he definitely should be given an opportunity to resume his flying career.

BUT, if this accident is found to be the result of the crew's incompetence, inattention, or negligence, then you better believe that this FO does not deserve another opportunity as a professional pilot! You do not get second and third chances when a large number of people are dead as the direct/indirect result of YOUR actions! That's not going to happen!!!

And I know, I am doing nothing but speculate at this point. I do realize that the final report is not out yet, so please refrain from the FLAMING I'm going to get because of what I'm saying. I know, THE FINAL REPORT IS NOT COMPLETE, I know!!!!!!

But until then, all we can do is speculate. This is supposed to be a forum for all of us to vent, discuss topics, and throw out opinions. So give me a break, and let us all discuss this crash and offer our perspectives of it.........I mean no disrespect to the FO, I'm sure he is a real stand-up guy with a good heart, and excellent piloting skills. I'm not trying to vilify him, not at all. I'm just trying to understand this crash and offer my view on it, whether it happened the way I think it happened or maybe some other way with circumstances that I know nothing about. I'm going to speculate, and if something were to happen to any one of us tomorrow, it goes without saying that the rest of us would be speculating and drawing our own conclusions 3 minutes after it happened without knowing the full facts of the case and without the FINAL REPORT..............

So flame away, but I'm just like everybody else on this board. I'm not trying to flame, and I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or an a**hole, and so on......

Guitar rocker and Fugawe, I agree with the both of you about pulling for this FO in his recovery and rehab, he definitely has an uphill battle ahead of him. And along with you guys, I hope he returns to a normal life mentally and emotionally stronger, and I hope he does something that makes him happy and content in life. (I just don't think it should be as a prof. pilot -- IF THE REPORT COMES BACK saying that the crew made some bad choices that caused 49 people to lose their precious lives).

 

[Guitar rocker]

125, I see that you changed your tone somewhat. And I would more agree with what you said at this point regarding negligence. Previously you mentioned, "he should never fly professionally again".....regardless of the outcome or final report. Assume that they were "checking it out" to see if it could takeoff in 26 even though the numbers showed otherwise. Gross negligence is a whole different situation. But really, I cant imagine that anyone of us in their right mind would even think of it. That would be like trying to land a 737 on 33R in BOS just to see if yah could do it. I'm sure thats not the case in this situation.

 

[pilot125]

Imagine that- we agree on something.........I think. Anyway, I'm just trying to say how important accountability is in everything we do as aviators, as well as human beings.

Anyway, I've just doubled my post count these past two days, so I'm gonna just chill out for awhile.

I sincerely do wish all the best to the Comair FO and hope everything works out for him, and I wish him luck and good fortune in whatever he decides to pursue in the future!

Rock on, and I look forward to many more dicussions and debates here on this forum!

 

[time builder]

The question posed earlier was: would you fly with him?
As pilots, many of us can say yes, but I understand your point about a passenger, many of them freak out over any little thing they can find.

Even though it can be viewed an isolated incident to the aviation community, the general public can be very judgemental and unforgiving. All the more credit to a pilot who can jump back on and overcome this.