Comair/ASA Falling Behind Competition?

[Treme]

I posted this on another thread, but I thought it was more appropriate to begin a discussion on its own:

While Delta/Comair/ASA are busy fighting amongst themselves these former regional-jet industry-leaders are falling further and further behind the rest of the industry competitively.

The formerly state-of-the-art RJ terminal in Cincinnati is no longer state-of-the-art. American Eagle at O'hare, US Airways Express in Philadelphia, and Northwest Airlink in Detroit all have jetways for their RJ fleets. The Delta Connection facilities in Atlanta, LaGuardia, Cincinnati are no longer competitive. Customers do not want to walk outside into the elements and climb stairs to get onto the airplane. Capital improvements are necessary to stay competitive.

US Airways will take delivery of its first EMB170 in November. That airplane is light years ahead of the CRJ, and CRJ 700 in terms of customer appeal. It is designed to fit at existing jetways, it has a larger cabin, larger overhead bins, and a very large under-floor cargo area. Delta Connection needs to develop a competitive response to this new aircraft -- and that response may NOT be the CRJ700 or CRJ900.

Comair is currently asking crews to decrease APU usage on the ground to save fuel, cycles, etc. Delta passengers are walking outside, climbing aboard a cramped airplane, and then sweating profusely because Comair will not allow its captains to use their own discretion with regard to APU usage. They need to either provide ground-air hookups at the gates, or write the APU usage off as a cost of doing business. More passengers will be lost, then revenue saved by this policy.

There is more going on than an RJDC lawsuit. While you fight amongst yourselves the DCI system falls behind the industry. Once the scope argument has been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties you will still need customers to fly at Comair/ASA. If Delta doesn't bite the bullet and start planning capital improvements and aggressive competitive responses the loss of revenue may be a far more career threatening development.

Ya gotta spend money to make money.

 

[jarhead]

Treme,

Several misstatements of facts in your post, or outright falsehoods. I am not sure if you authored the post, or if it was taken from an article somewhere.

First, the post says that Comair was once the leading regional airline. It still is.
Second, the EMB170 would not be allowed into the Comair fleet due to current scope restrictions
Third, The use of the APU is at the captain's discretion. Even Randy said in a meeting
that you have to do what makes sense.

 

[Treme]

I did author the post and I admit that it was my opinion.

My supposition that Comair was no longer a leading regional airline was just to emphasis the point that they need to be a little more forward-thinking in competitive responses.

I was not advocating that you buy the ERJ170 -- just that there needs to be a competitive response to the 170. It's a quality product that the customer is going to enjoy. Delta is going to need to find a way to make the CRJs AS appealing, or consider the addition of another fleet type to connection in order to compete.

As for the APU policy -- I hope you're right. In my experience commuting, however, it seems that the vast majority of the flight-crews are following their standardization manual to the letter of the law. It is extremely HOT and uncomfortable in the cabin. I asked a captain if he was permitted to start the apu on hot days and he told me that they were handcuffed by the new policy.

 

[jarhead]

Treme,

Believe it or not, I am in agreement with much of what you state. But, I have a different slant on it. I much prefer to ride in the relative comfort of a 738 over that of a CRJ200 or CRJ700. That said, for a short trip of say an hour to an hour and a half, I find the CRJ ok. Not great....just ok. That said, frequency of departures are better with CMR small jets than the larger mainline aircraft. This must ring true with a lot of people. As an example, there are eight flights a day out of MSP to CVG. Six of those are Comair 50 or 70 seat RJ's, while there is one Delta Mad Dog, and one 738 to round it out. The mainline aircraft ALWAYS have around 70 or so empty seats, while the RJ's are practically, if not totally full. Comair is adding to DAL bottom line (i.e., reducing the amount of red ink) while mainline is hemorrhaging cash. There is a place for both (or more) types of airframes in Delta's operation. Where they go (mainline or WO) is a matter of pending litigation. Obviously, the whole scenario sucks right now, post 9-11 and business travel down so much. The legacy carriers must meet the challenges posted by the JetBlues of the world, or there will be even tougher times ahead.

 

[CR7CAP]

Treme -

I'll have to agree with you on the APU issue (at Comair). I recently took a Comair flight out of DCA to CVG. There were approximately 35 passengers on board when I boarded. The APU was not running and the temperature was just about unbearable. Passengers were complaining while fanning themselves with the passenger information cards. As a DCI pilot myself, I was embarassed. The crew eventually started the APU - about 7-8 minutes prior to push.
If you're not going to run the APU on a 95 degree day, hook up an air cart.

 

[General Lee]

Treme,

Yes, some of the equipment used is alittle out dated, but the Delta family still carries more people than any other carrier, period. I really don't think many people mind whether or not they walk alittle outside, unless it is snowing or raining heavily. The scope problem within Delta is an important issue, and it will take some time to resolve. A key point is that Delta mainline has 1310 pilots on furlough, and DCI wants to expand, with only ASA allowing the furloughs to not give up their senority rights. If Delta really wants the new jets, Dalpa will have to find a way to help those furloughs out, and that may be complicated. Delta is also in the process of looking at 100 seat jets, and will narrow it down to 2 shortly. A decision will be made soon on which one will win--and an order will be made. (with a sweet deal I am sure, and with as little money down as possible) The three way large codeshare with CO/NW/DL will help us attract more business travelers, which will boost revenue by $200 million a year. I don't see us falling behind any of the other Majors, and USAir will hurt big time when Song and Jetblue gang up on it. Passengers will enjoy the entertainment systems on the Song 757s and Jetblue A320's---while the shiny new EMB-170 will be cramped in comparison on the East Coast flying. As a pilot, I think the EMB-170 will be neat to look at and probably fun to fly, but passnegers won't really care. We shall see who comes out on top, but the Delta family is not old by any means, and we just have to figure out how to get along better, which we eventually will.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

General,

Your post shows me you have a pretty good read on the pulse of Delta and DCI. Good post. You are right on the money there.

 

[Palerider957]

General,

I sure hope you are right. Delta REALLY needs to get in the mind set to compete with Jet Blue/SWA/Air Tran, et. al. I have serious concerns that the old school execs. will try to stick to the old way of doing business. No one thought Eastern, TWA, Pan Am would go the way of the dinosaurs.

I'm concerned not only for the Delta mainline, but our livlihood as well. As a WO, our fates are closely tied together--we may be making money and growing, but, as our president said--if Delta goes down the tubes, so will we.

If Delta does get the 100 seat jobs, your work rules may have to be modified to make a buck with them. In the Brasilia days (as I'm sure you remember), the rule was to fly six legs a day, pay people shi.t, squeeze the crews and aircraft for all they are worth, and then extend, or draft crews for even more.

They totally burned out the crews(and didn't give a flying fu.ck), but they made $$...how will Delta mainline guys deal with this kind of treatment that may have to come with smaller aircraft?

I'm not poking at you guys, but a real question. I couldn't imagine going back to that kind of treatment, I wouldn't--will NOT.

I'm genuinely rooting for DAL and the furloughees, but I'm concerned about some harsh realities.

 

[surplus1]

General

I'm curious. What is the seat width and seat pitch in the "Song" configuration? How does this compare to the values for the EMB-170 and the CRJ-700?

No hidden motive, I'd just like to know the numbers.

 

[House_X]

I've jumpseated on all DCI carriers except for CHQ. All are very professional and first rate. Eagle is great to jumpseat on as well. As far as "state of the art"...I really don't see any HUGE difference between DCI, Eagle, and COEX. UAX is so fragmented that I actually think it's a step down.

I don't think Song will hurt U.S. Air. You can't fly a 757 into smaller markets...jetBlue has the EMB-190 and US Air has the 170. ACA's intentions are to beat both carriers into the smaller markets in the short run. I'd like to see the financial numbers on Song though...

 

[FlyingSig]

Re: General

I'm curious. What is the seat width and seat pitch in the "Song" configuration? How does this compare to the values for the EMB-170 and the CRJ-700?

No hidden motive, I'd just like to know the numbers.

According to flysong.com each seat has "at least" a 33 inch pitch.

According to delta.com , the CRJ-700 offers a 31 inch pitch & 17 1/2 inch width.

Song doesn't list the width, but I'd assume it is equal or greater then the -700.

Embraer list the EMB-170 in 70 seat/single class configuration as having 32 inch pitch , but does not list the width. In a dual class configuration, it lists first class as 36 inch and coach as 31 inch.

 

[General Lee]

Flying Sig is correct. The planes are nice and a lot more roomy than the older Delta Express 737-200's I used to fly. The attitude of the flight attendants is a lot better too---if you get a chance, try it out.


Palerider,

I bet the rules will be slightly different, and the 100 seat pilots will fly alittle more. I don't know what the stage lengths will be or how many legs, but the CVG and ATL 737-200 guys fly 3-4 legs a day, and the 100 seater will probably replace that flying. When I flew at Delta Express we could fly up to 100 hours a month, compared to the mainline guys flying usually 80 or so. I believe the Song pilots will eventually do about the same if they are seperated into a seperate group, and probably the 100 seat guys too. I remember those 7 or 8 leg days in the Brasilia, and I know they were tough, but a 100 seat airplane has got to be easier to fly than the E120. A quiet plane with an autopilot and maybe an autothrottle wouldn't be that bad.

House_x,

The Song 757's wouldn't be going into the same airports generally as the USAir EMB170's. The Song planes would stick to the major markets that could support a lot of seats per day---like BOS, all 3 NYC airports, BDL, IAD maybe, and FLA. (not counting the LAS and LAX flights too) Song and Jetblue will take away USAir's connect traffic in their hubs. People will flock to these airlines because they will offer nonstops at a good price with entertainment. Will that hurt us too in ATL and CVG? No. I have explained it before. The hubs have connecting flights to FLA also (with large 767-400s). But, those seats make alittle more money because most of the people on those flights just got off RJ's from smaller towns (I use Peoria a lot)---and are paying more to connect to FLA and the sun and waves. Peoria and other smaller towns will not get LCC's for awhile, so in reality we "got em." AS airlines like Airtran grow, some of those towns (like good ole Flint) will get that service, but they might not have the exact connections to where the passengers want to go---like Key West for example, and then they pay alittle more on us. USAir is mainly an East Coast airline, and they do a lot of North South flights on the East Coast. Jet Blue and Song will erode into their revenue. By DEC we will have 36 757s flying up and down the East Coast (and West mainly at night for allnighters from LAS and LAX), taking passengers to FLA and back. That won't help their profits, and Jetblue is doing the same, along with Continental out of EWR etc.......... It will be interesting.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Thanks Sig. Forgot to ask what it is on JetBlue.

Hey, the boy's growing. Hope all is well with you.

 

[Treme]

Wanted: Jetways, ground-air, and passenger comfort enhancements (i/e entertainment systems and larger overheads) for DCI.

I also wonder if there is a way to retrofit the 50 seat CRJs with the 70 seater's aft-lav. Might lose a seat or two, but it's one of the big customer gripes that I hear commuting.