Columbia 400 vs Cirrus SR22 Turbo

[Swass]

Ran across a low time ~600 hr Bonanza (late 90's) that might fit the bill if the price is right. 320k+- should do it. Keep the info coming as this is no where near a done deal.

Thanks

 

[JediNein]

The Turbo SR22 has internal O2. The Turbo is installed at the factory on the normal part of the production line, so the line between TCDS and STC is quite blurred.

Cabin Space: Cirrus wins hands down over the Columbia. The Columbia is only slightly more roomy than a Mooney, but not much. You really need to be good friends with your passenger in the Columbia.

Neither aircraft is good in ice. One doesn't take a clean wing into ice without certified equipment, and one thinks twice before taking a certified clean wing into ice even if it is certified. One especially avoids flying in the worst winter storm in [fill in the blank] years over the Sierras [or Rockies] with an aircraft. I've had friends in King Airs and Citations falling out of the sky with too much ice attempting to do that. Some have survived, some haven't.

G1000 versus Avidyne, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are based on the Garmin 430, so if you know that, you'll be able to figure out either of the glass cockpits. I have a bunch of avionics checklists published for whenever you forget something, it's on the checklist.

Both aircraft have been spin tested, the guys at Columbia just spent more money to get the FAA stamp in the 'spin' box versus Cirrus with the FAA stamp in the 'equivalent level of safety' box. Where do spins get ya? In the traffic pattern. The chute *might* help. In either aircraft a spin at pattern altitude is a bad idea.

Have there been some lives saved because of Cirrus' chute? Yes. The accident investigators have gone as far to state that had the people involved not had a chute, the accidents would have had no survivors.

Accident rates? Cirrus' overall rate is less than the GA average, Columbia slightly higher. The numbers are so small that a single accident of either can cause their positions to reverse. Cirrus, Columbia, Centurions, Bonanzas, and Malibus share roughly the same accident rates for the same reasons, except the Cirrus guys don't have too many gear up landings.

For the Cirrus, factory support at a service center is fair. I've had both immediate fixes and wait for days for tech support to give answers, the mechanics to try it, and then wait days for further answers when the first attempt didn't fix it.

At a non-service center or a newly designated one, support sucks bilge water. If you have a problem develop in-flight, you're better off landing at an airport either a service center, otherwise the tech support guys will do their best to force you to fly the aircraft to a service center. One example, my SR20 has been down for 2 weeks and it's expected to go through 3 weeks for a minor problem that has a 10 minute fix.

Part of the problem seems to be the owners that call up asking really stupid questions that could be answered with a short visit to their friendly flight instructor. I know one place that spent four hours trying to figure out which spark plug was firing on cylinder 2 when on the left mag - it's in the bleeping manual. Another problem is that the Cirrus fleet size has doubled, but the number of support techs and service centers has not. Cirrus should add an instructor to their hotline for the training questions and a mechanic instructor for the RTFM questions.

Columbia, with a greatly reduced support network, appears to be even worse, yet with a smaller fleet.

In contrast, only a few mechanics in the Cessna Service Centers could figure out Cessna's G1000 & other electrical glitches. With ten times the number of service centers, Cessna went through the growing pains in two years. Cirrus is on year three.

All 'C' factories are aware of their support problems, but progress is slow.

Now for a large ‘however’. The Cirrus delivered since early 2006 seem to have few to zero problems that would require use of a Service Center. The ones delivered from 2000 through 2006 have a couple to a few problems, most having already been worked out.

Overall, I really enjoy flying and instructing in the Cirrus (500+ hours now). Flying hard IFR with a glass cockpit and working autopilot does reduce my workload and tends to make the long cross countries boring, which is where they should be. I really enjoy the air conditioning, something not always available on the older aircraft, or still in working condition.

I have not flown the Columbia as my clients tend to sit in one for a little while then go out and buy the Cirrus instead.

 

[mzaharis]

Ran across a low time ~600 hr Bonanza (late 90's) that might fit the bill if the price is right. 320k+- should do it. Keep the info coming as this is no where near a done deal.

Thanks

Another applicable discussion on another forum - columbia or bonanza.

Just coincidentally saw it a couple of days ago, reading about the Garmin G600.

http://www.aero-farm.com/ubbthreads...07&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

 

[deadstick]

The Turbo SR22 has internal O2. The Turbo is installed at the factory on the normal part of the production line, so the line between TCDS and STC is quite blurred.

You're right. I was thinking about the AC. That isn't available on the Turbo 22.

 

[MrBojangle]

I work in Duluth as a factory training instructor for Cirrus and I can add a few pieces of insight.
For one, the 22 Turbo is a two person machine. You might need ballast in the back depending on your weights.
As far as customer support, you're obviously going to hear both sides of the coin. However I have seen Cirrus absolutely bend over backward to accomodate. They do a great job.
Aircraft quality fit and finish could use a little work with the 22. It's like comparing a Honda to a Lexus. Both look great, but the "hypothetical" finish differences may differ.
I have not flown the Colombia, but the 22T is hands down the easiest aircraft I have ever flown. Once you overcome the avionics hurdles (all the kinks will be worked out once you take the transition training) the plane is a joy to fly.
Hope this helps

 

[JediNein]

(all the kinks will be worked out once you take the transition training)

Actually, you need to already have the avionics KNOWN before heading the DLH for the transition training. By flight #4-5 you are expected to have 'automation proficiency'. This means you are not still struggling with big knob and little knob.

It's a rare pilot that can conquer the 430 while trying to figure out the airplane.

 

[G2T]

It's a rare pilot that can conquer the 430 while trying to figure out the airplane.

Direct to and enter baby!! If you're going IFR you should have the flight plan loaded before you take off. It's not rocket science, its just a cirrus (and yes, I've flown it).

 

[Publishers]

I have flown them both. Being a bigger person, the Cirrus is for me. The Columbia was one of the most uncomfortable aircraft I have had to sit in. The Cirrus seemed much more repsonsive at all speeds and had better all around visability. The Columbia went a bit faster but felt heavier and needed the trim to keep my arm from falling off. Cirrus did not land quite like the Columbia which again felt more like landing a Hawker - Not much flare.
One thing that came up in the Columbia was that we needed special jacks to change the tires.
I like the Avidyne over the 1000 and from the conversations around here that seems to be a concensus. It is more intuitive than the Garmin. I flew the Garmin in a 172 and at that speed, I had plenty of time to figure it out.
Our airport had about 10 Cirrus and one Columbia. That is the vote.