College/accelerated programs and quality of CFIs

[FlyingToIST]

I have had nothing but a bad luck with people who are graduating from accelerated programs, or some college degree in aviation program. The more i interview these people the more I wonder how they got past their PPL checkride yet alone the CFI check ride.

I have interviewed someone recently who is a graduate of a college in midwest. This person is all over the TPA, i mean +/- 300 feet. I have also interviewed someone from an advertiser of this forum and this guy was the same way.. I have seen people who are too high on the final but they cannot do anything about it... I have seen people flaring too high, getting the aircraft very close to stall 50 feet off the runway with me taking the controls immediately..

Is "self examining authority" becoming a cart blanche to hand out CFI certificates left and right? I am extremely surprised more and more people looking for jobs that cannot even make an attempt to make a good landing, fly the pattern half way decent and think they are "all that" because they graduated from a university with an aviation degree program or from XYZ "academy".

Some of my private pilots fly better than these people.... i just find it amazing...

 

[BoilerUP]

Unfortunately, many university aviation programs are full of CFIs that hate instructing and do it only to build time...much to the detriment of their students. I know Purdue definately had a few like that, but thankfully with Part 61 training a DPE decides if you pass or not instead of having 141 examining authority, and IND FSDO is somewhat tough about initial CFI rides.

When I was full-time instructing, I noticed CFIs who had trained at the Flordia pilot mills could fly well but couldn't teach a teenager how to tie their shoes, let alone somebody how to fly and land a Cessna...and I won't even talk about basic instrument skills (or lack thereof). Certain programs were much worse than others...

Its easy to pass judgement on a huge group of pilots because of their background, but its honestly up to each person to get their head on straight and realize if they are teaching, they need to teach and be proficient at flying in order to have credibility. ANYBODY that says "I trained to be a 121 first officer!" to justify a behavior or lack of knowledge/skill doesn't belong as a flight instructor, and I've heard that excuse more than a handful of times.

 

[cynic]

The truth

The reason these programs are bad is because they violate education rule number one. You do not hire your graduates as instructors. It leads to an inbred dumbing down of the instruction. Thats why the university that gave you a PhD will not hire you.


The theory goes…. If I am a CFI and I teach you how to fly you learn a subset of what I know. An instructor can’t convey all experience and knowledge to a student. If that student then gains no outside real world experience and begins instructing right after graduation his students will learn a subset of his knowledge; which is a subset of my knowledge. I think you get the idea. Do this for a few ‘generations’ of pilots and pretty soon you have captain fancy pants from Riddle / Comair / Super Duper Airline pilot school that can’t hold altitude, can’t fly anything but a 172 and is qualified to fly approaches at Sanford so long as nothing changes. It turns out that diversity in education is a very good thing.




On the up side, today's jets are so automated and so reliable that other than the once in a few years VMC (I think that one was in washington DC) / Dude.. lets go to FL 41... Ummm was that Runway 22 or 26....

It really doesn't matter. The airline safety record is pretty darn good overall. I credit the engineers and ATC though. Not the pilots

 

[aviator1978]

The reason these programs are bad is because they violate education rule number one. You do not hire your graduates as instructors. It leads to an inbred dumbing down of the instruction. Thats why the university that gave you a PhD will not hire you.

Dude.. lets go to FL 41... Ummm was that Runway 22 or 26....

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Having graduated from CAPT, I can attest that I thought they taught me enough to do the jet job. It wasn't until I was hung out to dry by CAPT and the ruined financial situation that I am at that I had time (and lots of it) to read on my own and realized just how much I didn't know. Frankly, I can say that compared to what I've learned on my own since leaving CAPT versus what I got from CAPT, I didn't know diddly coming out of CAPT. I spoke to another individual who is in my situation and we were both in agreement. Their jet transition portion of the training didn't teach me anything significant regarding high speed aerodynamics. My oral on that aspect was 1.5 minutes at best. Looking back, CAPT is comparable to standing on a long line at White Castles thinking you're getting Ruth's Chris.

CAPT's forumla is simple. Get these people the absolute minimum time and experience that the FARs allow for and use their used car sales pitch to try to con airline HR departments to hire them. After all, giving more flight time to cadets translates to a hit on their bottom line.

 

[acaTerry]

Dude.. lets go to FL 41... Ummm was that Runway 22 or 26....

While I agree with the first part of this statement, you really are way out of line on the second. Both of the crew were experienced in the CMR case, and until the NTSB comes out with the final, and YOU have been in similar situations, you should focus your efforts on fact-finding. Nothing is more dangerous than a pilot who takes shots at someone else over an accident that anyone else could have had. Yes the PCL crash was plain stupidity and immaturity, but the CMR crash goes deeper.
I respectfully suggest you hold your opinion to yourself until you find out more.

 

[acaTerry]

(Name your academy, college, whatever) ...teaching tests since 199X. Accelerated training too often = diluted CFIs teaching tests and checkrides rather than true airmanship.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Some food for thought, give me two people who have XXX number of hours. One recieved those hours and subsequent ratings in a 90 day course. Give me another who recieved the same number of hours and same ratings over 3 years. Who is the more experienced pilot? I really do think changes in seasons, flying different types of aircraft and just having the time to let that knowledge sink in makes the pilot who gained the hours over the entended duration the more experienced.

 

[FlyingToIST]

I also question the self examining authroity of the college this person graduated from. This person i flew with was not even meeting the PTS for PPL, yet along a CFI. We checked out this person on various types of aircraft we had, and all of them were disaster. I mean, if I am taking the controls over from a CFI who has 50 hrs + on the type of aircraft that this person is flying, there is something absolutely wrong with this picture.

 

[satpak77]

my 2 cents

When I first started taking lessons I was age 16 or 17. Cessna 152. Instructor was a 24 year old Spartan Grad. Nice guy, but I think on Hour #3 all he talked about was "watch the airspeed, 67 knots, best rate, 67 knots. NOT 75. 67! WHOOAA. Not too slow, you are at 60. 67 KNOTS."

He then told me "might as well start now, cause when you get to the big boys, you need to know your numbers" (heaviest iron the CFI ever flew was a 182-RG).

And thats all fine and stuff, but this was a 16 or 17 year old acne faced kid at the controls of a 152, at hour 3 or 4.

Well, above instructor left to work for a commuter, and nobody immediately was hired. In the interim, a crusty old crop-duster, I mean like age 70 EASY, who did hold a CFI, and worked at the field, was asked to fill in. Above guy leared to fly in the 30's or 40's.

The 67 knot stuff flew out the window, and it was

"put the nose above the horizon kid, good."

"it will fly when it wants. Pull the yoke back about a fists-length worth, and apply take off power. Let it rotate when it wants"

"what you looking at? Get your eyes off those gages and out into the sky, son"

"wear the airplane kid, don't drive it"

"whats it telling you? If you are slow, in trouble, too fast, the airplane will tell you. Listen to it"

"I am gonna cover airpeed, RPM, AND altitude." "I want you to level off at pattern and we will do some touch and goes"

"put this over your eyes. Parked on the ramp. Now touch the throttle, mixutre, starter, door handle. Oops you missed. Try it again. This aint the Space Shuttle son, you need to know these things"

"alright son, you need to know what a spin is. Lets go do some"

"Ok, I am gonna get out, take it around the pattern and give me three landings. Should be easy, I ain't in here to make it hard"

the rest is history