Class B

[JB74]

Quick question,

Does filing VFR with a FSS to an airport underlying class B guarantee you will get cleared into that class B?

I was denied the other day and thought is was strange (TPA). I figured the controller was busy and I just didn't fit into the picture at that time. No new notams or TFRs for the area either. Just a simple "aircraft calling...remain clear class bravo". Thanks

 

[SDCFI]

ATC could care less about whether you're on a VFR flt plan or not. They don't have access to that information anyway, at least not without calling FSS on the phone. Your thinking is right, they didn't have time to work with you. If you get flt following from center enroute you stand a better chance of getting a Bravo clearance because they know you're coming, but there are still no guarantees.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Nope. Never. Filing a VFR flight plan is about people being able to have a clue about where to look for you if you don't show up. It has nothing to do with routings or clearances.

And remember that even receiving flight following services from a Class B Approach Control does not guarantee access into the Class B airspace. I'd bet the most common Class B violation is a pilot who thinks that because he is talking to Class B approach it means he can enter the airspace without hearing the magic words, "Cleared into Class Bravo."

 

[pilotman2105]

If you're IFR, that will change this situation a bit. However, if we're talking VFR, a flight plan is with FSS and really no one else (at least to my knowledge... I have heard rumors that the departure airport, if it has a tower, may get information on your flight if you file a VFR flight plan, but I am not sure about this).

If you are VFR, the magic words of "Cleared into the Class Bravo airspace" are necessary *before* you get into the airspace. Otherwise it is a violation.

 

[avbug]

There are no magic words to hear, but one does need a clearance to enter. A clearance direct to a given point, without specifically stating cleared to enter class bravo, will suffice. By example, if you're told to proceed south along the highway, maintain four thousand five hundred, through class bravo, you're cleared in, without ever hearing the formal clearance.

If some doubt exists in your mind, you should, and are required to obtain clarification. Simply talking to the controller is not enough, but a clearance into the airspace doesn't necessarily require specific wording. If in doubt, ask. A vector into class B with a clearance to a particular point is a clearance to operate in class B airspace.

When operating on a VFR flight plan, the plan remains with flight service unless you are overdue. At that time, towers and facilities at the departure and destination are contacted, as well as facilities enroute or near your route where you may have landed. A ramp check is performed, to see if your aircraft is there. Failing that, the search is expanded. However, your departure ATC facility, and the destination, do not have your information on a VFR flight plan unless you have become overdue on an activated flight plan.

Flight following will not clear you in, as "flight following" is merely VFR radar advisories (no such thing as "flight following;" that's a slang term for VFR Radar Advisories). It's a voluntary luxury service that provides you limited traffic information on a workload permitting basis. Don't count on it getting you into or through any airspace, because that's not it's intent, nor is it a clearance of any kind.

 

[pilotman2105]

I stand corrected. Avbug is correct. According to 91.131, you just need a specific clearance into the airspace. This does not have to come in the form of "Cleared into the Class B airspace."

However, as a matter of preference, if the controller does not specifically say something along those lines, I'm going to ask for verficiation. This way, there is a definite record of it incase someone accuses me of busting the Class B airspace.

 

[IFlyGC]

Hi all,

AvBug is 99.9% correct but this should clarify the legal answer. A pilot IS required to hear at least some "magic" words and a vector into the Bravo IS NOT a clearance to enter as....

"Assignment of radar headings, routes, or altitudes is based on the provision that a pilot operating in accordance with VFR is expected to advise ATC if compliance will cause violation of any part of the CFR." - ie. If that will make you bust the Bravo.

When just recieving a vector (such as in VFR practice approaches) you MUST also recieve the class Bravo clearance..."Cleared into the Class Bravo Airspace".

However, ATC CAN shorten the clearance with "Proceed as requested". ie. "Approach, I'd like to transition the Bravo to XYZ at 4500"....."Proceed as requested" That IS a legal Bravo clearance (although I personally still make them say it).

91.131 does specifically state that a clearance is required from ATC and this link tells ATC how to give that clearance...

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0709.html

As for a VFR flight plan helping you out...unfortunately it will not. The only real use for a VFR flight plan (with the exception of the new airspace issues we are faced with) is a cheap life insurance policy. If you say you'll land at 12:00 and at 12:30 you're not there, they'll start looking for you. Thats about all it's good for.

Hope this clears things up for you.

~Fly~

 

[JB74]

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[avbug]

No magic words.

"Salt Lake Approach, Bonanza five six hamburger x-ray is on the east side, request barn transition."

"Bonanza six hamburger x-ray, Salt Lake. Radar contact. Turn left heading three one zero to the Tower, then direct the barn."

"Bonanza six hamburger x-ray, yee-haw."

 

[IFlyGC]

The "magic words" are the authorization to proceed to "the Barn" (or "Proceed as requested"). If all our Bonanza driver was given was "Fly heading 130" then a separate Class B clearance is required.

The magic words arent necessarily "Cleared into the Class B Airspace"....but must include "Proceed as requested" or something to that effect. A heading by itself does not give you the authorization.

~Fly~