Class B Speed Restriction

[Frank Bama]

I was flying with this captain that was trying to tell me that the 250 kts. inside class B was no longer a restriction. I looked it up and it is indeed no longer there. Where have I been? Does anyone know when it went away? Just curious. Fly Safe.

Frank

 

[IP076]

TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
(Continued)

PART 91--GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Flight Rules

Sec. 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may
operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of
more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may
operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4
nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace
area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This
paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations
shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a
Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor
designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated
airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is
greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft
may be operated at that minimum speed.

Now, time to dig out the old FAR's, something tells me that it never actually said it anywhere,
just the below 10000 restriction.

 

[Daveman]

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may
operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of
more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may
operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4
nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace
area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This
paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations
shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(b)Such op's shall comply w/ (a)-----250kts. class B
This may not be the case in Houston from what I've heard. And if the Capt. wants to go fast, by all means.....

 

[Deltoid]

Daveman,


If I remember correctly Houston Class B was the airspace in which the FAA was testing to allow aircraft to exceed 250kts in it. I don't know if they are still conducting the tests anymore. But 91.117 does apply to class B airspace below 10,000ft MSL. Class B above 10,000ft MSL you can exceed 250kts such as with Denver. Hope it helps..


Deltoid

 

[kilroy]

Houston stopped doing the no speed limit thing......... .To bad 360 knots a 2000 feet was kinda cool....

 

[FracCapt]

(b)Such op's shall comply w/ (a)-----250kts. class B
This may not be the case in Houston from what I've heard.

Houston(IAH ONLY) had a test program up until about a year ago(maybe more, maybe less) that allowed DEPARTING AIRCRAFT to exceed the 250kias below 10,000ft speed limit while within the Class B. This DID NOT apply to arriving aircraft. You also had to receive approval from ATC to exceed 250 - which was usually given when you contacted departure. They would give you altitude, heading, etc., and the phrase "no speed limit".

And if the Capt. wants to go fast, by all means.....

You think that the FO should just ALLOW the Captain to blow the speed limit without, at the VERY least, saying something? If the Captain is violated for it, chances are the FO will be as well. There are 2 pilots legally required, therefore they both shoulder the burden of any screwups. I hate flying with weak FO's that are afraid to say something when I screw up because "I'm the Captain" and they're "just an FO".

 

[PropsForward]

I hate flying with weak FO's that are afraid to say something when I screw up because "I'm the Captain" and they're "just an FO".

Slightly off topic, but I remember seeing a CRM video where the captain came in, sat down, and proceeded to instruct the crew about an imaginary do-not-cross line in the cockpit, his coffee requirments, etc. Funny has hell.

 

[Daveman]

Frac capt;

well, the last line was my dry sense of humor. So if I should try to be funny again, please stop me, by all means......of course!

 

[JungleJetFO]

(b)Such op's shall comply w/ (a)-----250kts. class B
This may not be the case in Houston from what I've heard. And if the Capt. wants to go fast, by all means.....

Are you saying that there is a 250 knot limitation in Class B? If so, that is untrue. (b) is saying that you are restricted to 250 knots below 10,000 ft MSL. If you are 10,000 and above in Class B, you can go faster than 250.

 

[Daveman]

I was flying with this captain that was trying to tell me that the 250 kts. inside class B was no longer a restriction. I looked it up and it is indeed no longer there. Where have I been? Does anyone know when it went away? Just curious. Fly Safe.

Frank

From Franks Profile I thought his ? had to do with unrestricted speed in the Houston area. Class B, under 10k. (Testing over Houston). Kilroy and Deltoid have cleared this up. But yes Frank, 10k & above 250kt limit does not apply. I do appoligize for not being clear on this subject.

 

[JungleJetFO]

I was flying with this captain that was trying to tell me that the 250 kts. inside class B was no longer a restriction. I looked it up and it is indeed no longer there. Where have I been? Does anyone know when it went away? Just curious. Fly Safe.

Frank

As far as the history of this, I have never known Class B to have a speed restriction and if it ever did, it would have been at least 7 years ago. It was one of those rules that people got confused since they associated all Class B's as below 10,000. But that is not the case since a few of them go above 10,000.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I've been flying in and out of Houston for the last year and I remember when the greater than 250 knot speed was terminated. Every now and then I would hear someone ask if the "no speed limit" was still in place. The controllers would explain that it no longer was. One pilot asked why and the controller said it was due to ALPA and that the union believed it was a safety issue. I had never heard of this before. Does anyone know of the truth of this or not?

 

[JungleJetFO]

I've been flying in and out of Houston for the last year and I remember when the greater than 250 knot speed was terminated. Every now and then I would hear someone ask if the "no speed limit" was still in place. The controllers would explain that it no longer was. One pilot asked why and the controller said it was due to ALPA and that the union believed it was a safety issue. I had never heard of this before. Does anyone know of the truth of this or not?

I heard that no none was really tracking this "experiment" and whether it was a good or bad thing. So when push came to shove on why the FAA was allowing this to occur with no real purpose behind it, it was thus terminated. Now, I'm not sure if ALPA finally pushed it over the edge on getting it terminated, but the question did come up by someone on what the goal of this experiment was if no one was really studying it's effects.