CL-65 to CL-604,601

[dago]

Can anyone with experience adding a CL type to their RJ cert let me know if you were able to save any money at all. I have heard online insurance gives time in type credit, is that even true? Whats it gonna cost 601 or 604?

 

[svcta]

It is a completely separate type rating. Insurance I can't tell you anything about.

 

[Texx]

It is a completely separate type rating. Insurance I can't tell you anything about.

Insurance still wants the FSI, SF or factory training BUT they look highly upon the CL65 time when it comes to hours in an a/c towards cutting you loose.

 

[Texx]

Can anyone with experience adding a CL type to their RJ cert let me know if you were able to save any money at all. I have heard online insurance gives time in type credit, is that even true? Whats it gonna cost 601 or 604?

Oh about 30k for initial.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yeah, you're gonna wind up taking a full initial at FSI or Simuflite. There was a time when you could go to those outfits and type out of a recurrent IF you had significant time in type. I did that years ago. However, the CL65, while similar is not the same type.

Insurance wants simulator training, period.

 

[timmay]

And a little advice...During school when you wake up from your numerous naps (because it is 99% the same as the CL65) don't ask where the second cabin pressure controller is, they get pissed.

 

[PA-44Typed]

Just under $50K form FSI for the 604, not sure about SimuFlight orBombardier.

 

[FastJP4]

About 30K from Bombardier as of two years ago. If you're going to someone currently operating the aircraft, they probably have a respectable discount. The operator I worked for was getting initials for about 17k on the 604.

 

[ruhroa]

fastjp4...................................if you know someone who gets an initial cl604 for 17k then share it so everyone can use their own money and buy the type............. i would conservativly say a recurrent almost anything jet is more than that

 

[BushwickBill]

Great another airline guy switching over to 91/135... hey plenty of jobs over here. Don't worry about it. Its great. Go spend every penny you have saved during your airline career. You wont regret it. OH and you'll love cleaning the cabin.

 

[Rick James]

About 30K from Bombardier as of two years ago. If you're going to someone currently operating the aircraft, they probably have a respectable discount. The operator I worked for was getting initials for about 17k on the 604.

CL604 recurrent is $18K alone, did Walmart start selling jet type ratings?

 

[hawkerflyer]

This summer, 2 604 initials with 605 diffs at Bombardier DFW. 50K+ each.

 

[ruhroa]

yeah that sounds more like the logical pricing......

 

[BoilerUP]

And I thought $25k for a CJ2+ Initial was high...that's around or north of Falcon EASy Initial!

 

[ruhroa]

well unless it has dramatically changed the CL604 type rating was considered upper end in the type rating game............... I know a few years ago it was considered a "large" business jet so naturally it came with a "large" cost for training

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Just curious for those who'd know: what are the major differences between the
CRJ and the Challenger series? I was under the impression that the CRJ was simply a stretched Challenger..of course with some variances in avionics, etc. (never been in a Challenger). Just can't see how it should be a completely different type-rating & not 'differences'.
..Someone set me straight.

 

[AbOvo]

The pressurization control system is different, no dual CPAM.

No flaps 8. Some CL65s didn't have it either for a while.

The fuel system is different. Forward and aft center tanks as well as a tail tank. 19600lbs depending on how you fuel it.

ECS is different. It actually works

No wipers

EICAS doesn't show as many systems. Not sure if they have improved it on the 850.

Obviously all of the weights are different as well as the shorter wing and fuselage.

Since they go international a Challenger will have significantly more avionics equipment, IRS, HF, dual CDUs, etc. than a typical CL65.

In reality a 604 and a CR2 are similar in much the same way a CR2 and CR7/9 are similar. The manufacturer just chose to certify it as a CL60 instead of a CL65. The CL60 flies like a CL65 on crack.

Personally I'm glad they did it that way because it protects the jobs of the contract/corporate guys. There are just too many operators that will bargain down to the lowest price (a la Legacy) for contract flying to have meat in the seat.

Any Challenger operator with a brain is going to see value in your CL65 experience but corporate is as almost as much about your personality as it is your experience. Show up with the right attitude, make sure it's someone you want to fly with, and if they like you they'll send you to school. In 121 flying you're only stuck flying with a jerk for 4 days, corporate you could be stuck with a jerk for years.

If you're talking about a 601 the basic systems are similar but there isn't as much automation. Of course that depends on if you are talking about a -1A, -3A, -3A/ER, or -3R. Several of the schools have offered 601/604 differences and one offers 604/CL65 transition but they don't go the other way. They'll offer classes based on what the market will bear.

 

[Texx]

This summer, 2 604 initials with 605 diffs at Bombardier DFW. 50K+ each.

Did that include hookers from Harry Hines BLVD?

 

[BuckMurdock1]

The pressurization control system is different, no dual CPAM.

No flaps 8. Some CL65s didn't have it either for a while.

The fuel system is different. Forward and aft center tanks as well as a tail tank. 19600lbs depending on how you fuel it.

ECS is different. It actually works

No wipers

EICAS doesn't show as many systems. Not sure if they have improved it on the 850.

Obviously all of the weights are different as well as the shorter wing and fuselage.

Since they go international a Challenger will have significantly more avionics equipment, IRS, HF, dual CDUs, etc. than a typical CL65.

In reality a 604 and a CR2 are similar in much the same way a CR2 and CR7/9 are similar. The manufacturer just chose to certify it as a CL60 instead of a CL65. The CL60 flies like a CL65 on crack.

Personally I'm glad they did it that way because it protects the jobs of the contract/corporate guys. There are just too many operators that will bargain down to the lowest price (a la Legacy) for contract flying to have meat in the seat.

Any Challenger operator with a brain is going to see value in your CL65 experience but corporate is as almost as much about your personality as it is your experience. Show up with the right attitude, make sure it's someone you want to fly with, and if they like you they'll send you to school. In 121 flying you're only stuck flying with a jerk for 4 days, corporate you could be stuck with a jerk for years.

If you're talking about a 601 the basic systems are similar but there isn't as much automation. Of course that depends on if you are talking about a -1A, -3A, -3A/ER, or -3R. Several of the schools have offered 601/604 differences and one offers 604/CL65 transition but they don't go the other way. They'll offer classes based on what the market will bear.

Thanks so much for the reply. Sometimes it's just frustrating-- you have all this CRJ PIC time (i know I'm not alone in thinking this)..which doesn't seem to be worth d*ck when it comes to a corporate jet which looks identical to the CRJ. Good to know what some of the actual differences are. Kind of puzzling how all the 737 series are the same type rating.. yet Challengers are all different.
Like you said-- I'll try dialing up the positive attitude and see if that helps. (since I don't have the $50K myself).

 

[hawkerflyer]

Did that include hookers from Harry Hines BLVD?

Actually had to spring for those myself, but picked them up at Bonedaddy's instead. The Harry Hines hookers just ain't what they used to be...

 

[CarjCapt]

After retiring in fall of 2004 from CMR I went a year without doing anything. I decided to get recurrent in the CL65. Doing this to move some RJs around the country and be qualified to get a job overseas.

I found that Bombardier offered recurrent for about $5500 vs FSI and Simuflite at astronomical prices. Nonreved to YUL and spent a week there doing self directed ground school (computer) and FTD and sims sessions. In addition got differences training in the 70 and 90 seat aircraft. Took a 4 hour oral and check ride from a business jet (604/5) check airman (longest check ride in my aviation career).

Went back home and did some RJ moving (for Mesa and that is a long story) and as a result of being current did some Challenger 600/601 copilot work for the next two years.

In the mean time was offered and turned down jobs in the middle east and Africa (lagos) most because of the cost benefit ratio wasn't good enough. Not withstanding my wife saying no not no but hell no.

So now since I'm not current anymore (captain or FO) and the Challenger operators have reduced their flying to the point the Chief(s) are wonder about their job future. So they are not interested in getting me current in the right seat which would require FSI, Simuflite or some outfit that their insurance company approves and costs a ton.

I'm now, unless something drastically changes, copilot on a Cessna 172 and answering to the Chief Pilot, my better half.

I don't know if Bombardier still offers Recurrent the CL65 but I would call them because they have all the resources including using CAE's sims.

PM me if you want to get contact info.

 

[EastofI-5]

"Thanks so much for the reply. Sometimes it's just frustrating-- you have all this CRJ PIC time (i know I'm not alone in thinking this)..which doesn't seem to be worth d*ck when it comes to a corporate jet which looks identical to the CRJ. "

No Offense, but as far as "flying" your CRJ in a 121 Environment from ATL to SAV and back twice a day where everything from WX to fuel planning to flight planning are 100% handled by somebody else and passenger customer service, there are passengers back there?, are of minimal importance. Couldn't have less to do with flying a Cl604 conducting international operations with high maintenance passengers with constantly changing schedules where you and your co-pilot are tasked with handling EVERYTHING.
121 and 91 and mission type are the biggest differences between the RJ and the CL604 Any monkey can be trained to "fly" the airplane. Its making the "show run" so to speak that is the big difference between the two aircraft.
And BTW simply having a CL604 type isn't going to do much for you anyway. We're back to the old 250 hour pilot "paying" for training argument here.

 

[Sandhawk]

No Offense, but as far as "flying" your CRJ in a 121 Environment from ATL to SAV and back twice a day where everything from WX to fuel planning to flight planning are 100% handled by somebody else and passenger customer service, there are passengers back there?, are of minimal importance. Couldn't have less to do with flying a Cl604 conducting international operations with high maintenance passengers with constantly changing schedules where you and your co-pilot are tasked with handling EVERYTHING.
121 and 91 and mission type are the biggest differences between the RJ and the CL604 Any monkey can be trained to "fly" the airplane. Its making the "show run" so to speak that is the big difference between the two aircraft.
And BTW simply having a CL604 type isn't going to do much for you anyway. We're back to the old 250 hour pilot "paying" for training argument here.

Bingo!

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