CHQ/XJT Pay

[ERJpusher]

Why does everyone have this notion that pay at CHQ is so much lower than XJT?

Let's take a quick look at the EMB-145 Captain Payscales:

5-Year: XJT= $66, CHQ=$64
10-Year: XJT= $76, CHQ= $75
15-Year: XJT= $87, CHQ= $87
18-Year: XJT= $92, CHQ= $95

XJT signed on for these rates after CHQ's last contract.

So, obviously pilot pay is not the deciding factor here. If money WAS a factor in CAL choosing a new carrier (I still maintain that it was for diversity), than it must be because CHQ management runs a much more efficient airline. A lower cost structure doesn't necessarily mean that the pilot being paid a lot less.

 

[ERJFO]

Why does everyone have this notion that pay at CHQ is so much lower than XJT?

Let's take a quick look at the EMB-145 Captain Payscales:

5-Year: XJT= $66, CHQ=$64
10-Year: XJT= $76, CHQ= $75
15-Year: XJT= $87, CHQ= $87
18-Year: XJT= $92, CHQ= $95

XJT signed on for these rates after CHQ's last contract.

So, obviously pilot pay is not the deciding factor here. If money WAS a factor in CAL choosing a new carrier (I still maintain that it was for diversity), than it must be because CHQ management runs a much more efficient airline. A lower cost structure doesn't necessarily mean that the pilot being paid a lot less.

Have you ever considered that the wor k rules in a contract have a "cost" as well... In-fact pay scales are only worth 40% of a contracts total "cost", compare the contracts and you may see some differences. In terms of efficentcy XJT is the best.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Have you ever considered that the wor k rules in a contract have a "cost" as well....

No, because that would mean seeing "the big picture".

 

[Anais Nin]

In terms of efficentcy XJT is the best.

In terms of its pilots mastering the english language, XJT is the worst. :0

 

[superrav]

i hope they can find airplanes to fly..cause i dont think express is going to give them up...

 

[ReportCanoa]

i hope they can find airplanes to fly..cause i dont think express is going to give them up...

Just glad ASA wasn't offered the deal. Sounds like Chautauqua is having a party over it. Not surprising.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Don't kid yourself, there would be those at ASA happy to have gotten the flying.

 

[Cloudroller]

Have you ever considered that the wor k rules in a contract have a "cost" as well... In-fact pay scales are only worth 40% of a contracts total "cost", compare the contracts and you may see some differences. In terms of efficentcy XJT is the best.

Tell me about the other 60%

 

[Bushhatesyou]

I just got hired at XJT... Yeah I know great timing... However, yesterday out of managment's mouth.... " We don't plan on giving any of our planes away. " So take it for what it's worth.. Nothing is for sure untill it happens.

 

[bvt1151]

Take a good hard look at those FO rates, and CHQ comes in WAY under Express Jet, especially after 3 years.

No wonder they're so hard up to grab flying at any expense. Those FO's need to upgrade to get out of the Mesa-style wages.

 

[8HourPilot]

You should turn your hearing aid up.....
Were not having a party over it......doesnt sound anything like it.

Just glad ASA wasn't offered the deal. Sounds like Chautauqua is having a party over it. Not surprising.

 

[8HourPilot]

Again, (please look above to see what one of your brothers wrote) it's all in the work rules. Our FO payscale is not as good as yours, but it's hardly Mesa. Were block or better, just like you. They are segment pay.
I compaired last years W2 with both roomies from college, one files for Mesa, and one for XJT, I made the most.......and hardly flew the most. FWIW
All in the work rules......you guys kill us on reserve rules, but you have junior manning, we dont. This could go on and on.

Take a good hard look at those FO rates, and CHQ comes in WAY under Express Jet, especially after 3 years.

No wonder they're so hard up to grab flying at any expense. Those FO's need to upgrade to get out of the Mesa-style wages.

 

[ohplease!]

Take a good hard look at those FO rates, and CHQ comes in WAY under Express Jet, especially after 3 years.

No wonder they're so hard up to grab flying at any expense. Those FO's need to upgrade to get out of the Mesa-style wages.

Just how many FO's do you suppose they have over there with more than 3-5 years in the right seat?????

 

[tweeter125]

What is third year pay ay XJT?

 

[EMBPILOT1]

CHQ guys need to stop responding to this CRAP. One thread it's all about pay. The next one is about QOL. Then there is one about vacation. Listen, nobody knows why CHQ was awarded the flying. I will say that pay rates and vacation time and reserve rules and bla bla bla bla bla probably have very little to do with it. I wansn't negotiating with Cont. and I am sure you were not either. If pilot wages were the only reason, then there are a number of other airlines out there that would have received this flying.

Oh, I also have many friend at both airlines and I have not heard any partys going on over at CHQ. THis was just as big a shock to then as anyone else.

 

[SF340Guy]

Have you ever considered that the wor k rules in a contract have a "cost" as well... In-fact pay scales are only worth 40% of a contracts total "cost", compare the contracts and you may see some differences. In terms of efficentcy XJT is the best.

And 76% of all statistics are made up, so whats your point? Compare actual work rules then, that would be a logical post.

I just got hired at XJT... Yeah I know great timing... However, yesterday out of managment's mouth.... " We don't plan on giving any of our planes away. " So take it for what it's worth.. Nothing is for sure untill it happens.

Then welcome to the arline industry...Lesson 1, How do you tell when management is lying? Thats correct, they are talking.

BTW, I hate that XJT is losing these airplanes, most of my best friends work there, but if they have to go somewhere I am glad they are coming here... and thats not selfish, thats honest.

 

[mckpickle]

Guys bottom line is this. Maybe XJT is more expensive for many things other that pilot pay but due to pilot cost. Things like our scheduling committe. The company pays for pilots to build our lines. The company also helps pay for our Saftey Committee. We have a top notch Security Committee that flys every route before a line pilot touches it. The ASAP program, the FOQUA program, these things all cost money. But they lead us to a controlable 99.9% completion factor. If you wanna talk cost, yeah, maybe we're a little more, but lets see you deliver the same product.

As far as pilot contracts go. Sorry ladies, your way off. There are MANY things in our contract that cost a butt load of money. I have vacation in June. I gaurantee I won't fly more that 4-5 days. And get full pay for the month. How about our 401K. I put in 5%, XJT puts in 9%. Lots of soft time built into the contract in work rules. Example, If in my vacation month I do my PC, I'll receive almost 17 hours of add pay for training on my days (2) off. How about reserve rules, long call, no fly or fly preferences? Now how about our computer systems, CCS and ADOPT. What do you guys bid on, a Tandy? We spent millions on IT. And our trip trade system is increadible. You guys print out open time and call scheduling still right?

So besides the pay rates, (which are still above yours) there are many many things that cost more. This may affect the companies bottom line but produces much happier employees and productive pilots.

 

[SF340Guy]

Guys bottom line is this. Maybe XJT is more expensive for many things other that pilot pay but due to pilot cost. Things like our scheduling committe. The company pays for pilots to build our lines. The company also helps pay for our Saftey Committee. We have a top notch Security Committee that flys every route before a line pilot touches it. The ASAP program, the FOQUA program, these things all cost money. But they lead us to a controlable 99.9% completion factor. If you wanna talk cost, yeah, maybe we're a little more, but lets see you deliver the same product.

As far as pilot contracts go. Sorry ladies, your way off. There are MANY things in our contract that cost a butt load of money. I have vacation in June. I gaurantee I won't fly more that 4-5 days. And get full pay for the month. How about our 401K. I put in 5%, XJT puts in 9%. Lots of soft time built into the contract in work rules. Example, If in my vacation month I do my PC, I'll receive almost 17 hours of add pay for training on my days (2) off. How about reserve rules, long call, no fly or fly preferences? Now how about our computer systems, CCS and ADOPT. What do you guys bid on, a Tandy? We spent millions on IT. And our trip trade system is increadible. You guys print out open time and call scheduling still right?

So besides the pay rates, (which are still above yours) there are many many things that cost more. This may affect the companies bottom line but produces much happier employees and productive pilots.

Congratulations, but I would give up most, if not all of that touch feely stuff to keep the flying, and I am sure the bottom 300 on your list would as well. Some of that other stuff is great, but what makes your safety committee pilots any more qualified than any other line pilot, did they get that extra special training that the hide from the rest of us? If I fly 82 hours and you fly 82 hours, how are you more productive than me?

If everything you said is true, I can see why you are more expensive... I am not dissing anyone, I am just wondering if you are trying to fight XJET's case or RP's?

 

[Alchemy]

I doubt CHQ is significantly cheaper than XJET. Despite slightly higher labor costs, XJET should be able to have lower unit costs simply because of the economies of scale involved, 274 jets vs. CHQ's 100.

So the question is, why would CAL do this, especially since they still own stock in XJET (albeit less than 5%, and decreasing all the time)? My theories:

-They want to reduce their RJ capacity, hope (or possibly already know) that XJET will find another use for the planes, and are simply using CHQ as an excuse to possibly get XJET to lower the costs on the rest of its CAL flying.

-They plan on busting mainline CAL's scope clause and replacing some or all of the E145's with E-170/190's, which Republic could undoubtedly provide at a lower cost since their program is already established.

-They simply want more than one regional provider so that they can whipsaw the two groups against one another, giving the flying to the lowest bidder.

Maybe some combination of all three....

 

[RP170]

Who cares. All the regionals are just that: regionals. And they all suck. Stop arguing as to who is the best one. None of them are.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Why does everyone have this notion that pay at CHQ is so much lower than XJT?

Let's take a quick look at the EMB-145 Captain Payscales:

5-Year: XJT= $66, CHQ=$64
10-Year: XJT= $76, CHQ= $75
15-Year: XJT= $87, CHQ= $87
18-Year: XJT= $92, CHQ= $95

XJT signed on for these rates after CHQ's last contract.

So, obviously pilot pay is not the deciding factor here. If money WAS a factor in CAL choosing a new carrier (I still maintain that it was for diversity), than it must be because CHQ management runs a much more efficient airline. A lower cost structure doesn't necessarily mean that the pilot being paid a lot less.

Oy...shame on me for stepping into this catfight. For starters, the fact that CHQ's contract was signed before XJT's is meaningless. We never looked at CHQ's numbers when we were negotiating the pay rate tables. What we did notice, however, was that CHQ copied verbatim the Comair Scheduling Section prior to even negotiating their own DRD for PBS, which we found very puzzling.

With that said, CHQ won this flying not based on labor terms alone. There was a lot more that went into this decision for CAL and trust me, labor was only a small part of the overall equation. However, to claim that CHQ's contract is in the same ball park as XJT's is incredibly misleading. CHQ is AA ball and XJT's is AAA ball...while some of the legacies out there are Major League ball (even despite their concessions).

Sure, XJT's Captain rates are only $2/hour higher than CHQ's on the 50 seaters. But...that could be up to $2300 or so per year, before taking into account profit sharing and the 401k match. But we all know (and if we don't, we should) that contracts aren't solely about pay rates. CHQ's contract isn't bad...it is quite liveable. But XJT's contract allows its pilots to enjoy more time off, far better trip trading, more vacation time, more sick bank time, more per diem, higher pay rates, much better reserve rules, better profit sharing, and a far better 401k/retirement provision (a 6th year captain at XJT gets 9% from the company while a 6th year captain at CHQ gets 4%...that is equivalent to a 5% hourly rate increase). There are others but those are some of the big ones.

I hope this doesn't develop into a p-ssing contest because it isn't. CHQ has decent rules...hopefully they will improve upon them in the future in their next round of negotiations. They definitely didn't take concessions to get this growth. This was CAL's decision and congratulations to the CHQ pilots. I just hope you will take this growth with class and respect with full knowledge of what this may do to the pilot group at XJT.

-Neal

 

[Captain Overs]

As always Neal, said with class and dignity. You guys rock over there at XJT.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Congratulations, but I would give up most, if not all of that touch feely stuff to keep the flying, and I am sure the bottom 300 on your list would as well. Some of that other stuff is great, but what makes your safety committee pilots any more qualified than any other line pilot, did they get that extra special training that the hide from the rest of us? If I fly 82 hours and you fly 82 hours, how are you more productive than me?

If everything you said is true, I can see why you are more expensive... I am not dissing anyone, I am just wondering if you are trying to fight XJET's case or RP's?

And herein lies the problem...in my opinion. People are willing to give up all the other stuff for job security or growth. At some point the profession must advance, no? Why don't we all keep giving back what we have earned for shiny new jets? Maybe I am missing something in what you wrote and if I am putting words in your mouth, I apologize.

That said, our safety committee is really strong not because it is XJT but because we were lucky to have some really talented folks end up at XJT. One spent 20 years at Lockheed Martin doing accident investigations on F-16's (and he got a lot of experience with that jet sadly). Another spent years working at the FAA. I don't know McPickle brought up our Safety Committee though...has nothing to do with our contract, although our ASAP/FOQA language is second to none and the ALPA Safety School and Accident Investigation Class is incredible.

And when McPickle is talking about productivity, he is talking about average flight hours per day. I don't know what it is at CHQ so I can't comment but we have some pretty high time day trips and 2-days, etc.

-Neal

 

[captjim]

And herein lies the problem...in my opinion. People are willing to give up all the other stuff for job security or growth. At some point the profession must advance, no? Why don't we all keep giving back what we have earned for shiny new jets? Maybe I am missing something in what you wrote and if I am putting words in your mouth, I apologize.-Neal

Bingo, screw growth, it's about QOL. I think a few years of maturity teaches us all that time at home is more valuable than a new route or airplane. As a side note, I thank God for our managment team here, and I look forward to other oppurtunities in the future with XJT.

 

[Burt Gutherie]

"And our trip trade system is increadible."

Mr. mckpickle,

Is this better than good?


'

 

[foreverfo]

What I think people are forgetting is that XJT was created by CAL under Bethune. Bethune is gone. Kellner's at the helm now. Two different people with two different perspectives on us. Kellner hates the thought that we're their only "feeder"...hence CHQ. I could be wrong but I bet I'm close...at least Brandon C. can move up now from fueling my plane to being a Captain under someones flag, whether it's LCC, DAL or CAL or whoever CHQ flies for....to me, always a lineboy.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

"And our trip trade system is increadible."

Mr. mckpickle,

Is this better than good?


'

Don't knock the Pickle...he can write his name in the snow.

 

[regionaltard]

Congratulations, but I would give up most, if not all of that touch feely stuff to keep the flying

Spoken like someone who views flying as a commodity rather than as a career. Congratulations, you've been assimilated.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

Congratulations, but I would give up most, if not all of that touch feely stuff to keep the flying, and I am sure the bottom 300 on your list would as well. Some of that other stuff is great, but what makes your safety committee pilots any more qualified than any other line pilot, did they get that extra special training that the hide from the rest of us? If I fly 82 hours and you fly 82 hours, how are you more productive than me?

If everything you said is true, I can see why you are more expensive... I am not dissing anyone, I am just wondering if you are trying to fight XJET's case or RP's?

Congratulations, on being the idiot on this thread.

 

[FatAlbert]

Just glad ASA wasn't offered the deal. Sounds like Chautauqua is having a party over it. Not surprising.

Hell yeah b!tch!! Mooooooooooooooooovin on up!!! TOoooooooooooooooooooo the left seat. I finally got a piece of the money pieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.