CHQ Promissory Note quirks

[135 Rookie]

I am about to sign this thing before class starts on Monday, but I'm very uncomfortable with it. I had a lawyer go over it and says the same thing...

Obviously a training agreement is standard. I have no problem offering two years of my impoverished servitude, but the promissory note is new to me. Do the other regionals attach a promissory note in addition to the training reimbursement agreement?

In addition to making it clear that CHQ is loaning to me the $15000 to put me through class, this note clearly spells out that I owe them $15000...regardless of any other conditions. I don't have to quit, I don't have to be fired, I don't have to land gear up through Farmer Joe's barn. I flat out owe them $15000.

"I....promise to pay to the order of Chautauqua the sum of $15,000 payable in thirty-six equal monthly payments due the last day of each month bewginning on the date I sucessfully <learn to raise and lower gear upon given command> OR, resign, OR be discharged...whichever comes first."

Simply changing the first OR to AND puts the burden on me to pay ONLY if I resign/get booted.

It's unimaginable that CHQ collects $15000 for just stepping foot through the front door, so I think it's simply a technicality...but I'd like to talk with someone from the company on this one. Or what about the union - is it inappropriate to contact them even before I start training?

Any other suggestions - other than "Chill out and let it slide..?"

 

[dnkt]

Don't sign it and go elsewhere. Any regional that makes you sign a contract tells you something about the company. Thats alot of money to pay back if things don't work out. A year from now you may have a better oppurtunity come up that you want to take. I like the part that they are paying you 15000 to train you like they are doing you a favor. Your the one that's going to take it up the ass at $21 an hr, working weekands, holidays, away from your family, making $18,000 a year living the dream. The contracts not worth it. You've already put to much into this crappy job to have to worry about paying back a company. How about they pay you an extar 15000 a year. I would really think twice about signing that contract. There are to many companies better then CHQ that don't make you sign a contract.

 

[135 Rookie]

...now someone with something helpful to say...?

 

[dnkt]

you must be a embry riddle grad.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Well what you like to hear? Something along the lines of- definitely refuse to sign it and get a lawyer to write them a letter explaining why and hope they don't boot you out of class- is that what you want to hear?

Seriously, if an attorney doesn't like it, and you're uncofortable, tell them to shove it and get a different job. Regional jobs are a dime a dozen, and you can find a place with quicker upgrade time in a turboprop which is more fun anyway.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[vtchaz]

no magic answer

...now someone with something helpful to say...?

You seem to want someone to come on and tell you what you want to hear. Not gonna happen. If you want to work with them and go to class, then sign it. It's not like it was a secret you'd have to sign it. If you're uncomfortable with the langauge then tell them thanks but no thanks and move on. Lots of people hiring right now. Good luck!

 

[Gofish]

...now someone with something helpful to say...?

That was a helpful thing to say...you have just been given very good advice.

 

[135 Rookie]

I'm looking for others' experiences either regarding promisorry notes themselves or specifically Chautauqua's. As I said, I believe the intended meaning is to make me pay if I eff up or leave...and this meaning is changed by a simple re-wording.

SOOOO...surely in the history of aviation, someone has asked for wording to be modified an agreement. If so, how does one go about getting it done? Is there someone at RAH to whom I should speak ... or the union ... instead of showing up to class on day 1 and asking for an instructor - whose job couldn't be further from legalities - to straighten it out.

As for the career advice...I've had my fun in the turboprops and I've had my fun bouncing around all night long. It's no mystery that better jobs exist.
...and good gawd no I'm not from Riddle.

 

[Popeye0537]

You could go to another regional, but what are your goals? QOL, commuting, contract, time of upgrade. The 2 years is gonna go by fast, and what "better opportunity" do you think is going to come along. I'm assuming that CHQ is the only regional that has offered you a job, so going through another application process could take upward of a year. Almost everyone has a training contract wheather you flying boxes or CFI-ing

When my class read the contract, we had the same feeling but the company is investing time and resources into you with the hope you can pass training. Six guys didn't make it and that adds up to 90K. People who left traded up to the likes of SWA/B6/UPS.

 

[Whydoitry]

There is no reason what so ever to sign a training contract. As mentioned above there is no shortage of jobs for low time pilots. Don't just look at the pretty airplane with jet engines. You want to go to a major some day? Then go to Colgan or Commutair upgrade and move on.

 

[tomcat]

So after CHQ has hired all of these people with the attached promisory note (with, as I'm sure, plenty more waiting to sign), you are going to get them to change it for you? Good Luck!

 

[Popeye0537]

There is no reason what so ever to sign a training contract. As mentioned above there is no shortage of jobs for low time pilots. Don't just look at the pretty airplane with jet engines. You want to go to a major some day? Then go to Colgan or Commutair upgrade and move on.

Colgan has a 1 yr training contract, research a little before you spout off. CHQ isn't a low time job, Eagle is. We've got a bunch of Colgan guys over here flying for us because that jobs sucks.

BTW our airplanes are really not that pretty.

 

[135 Rookie]

Again, as I said, I fully expect to sign - and fulfill - a training agreement, as I have also done with prior jobs.. But the way the PROMISSORY NOTE (has this become such a misunderstanding in that you people don't know what a promissory note means?...it's much different than a training agreement) reads is that I owe them money right now. I start class on Monday, CHQ can call me on Tuesday and ask for $15,000. I assume it's a miswording of the agreement...it should be changed.

Forget it - if anyone has something of intelligence instead of latent resentment for his/her life, PM me.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Then you go in there and insist they change it or you won't grace them with your skills. See what happens. Dork.

 

[ASH]

FWIW, I have never heard of CHQ attempting to collect any money from FO's. It is an insurance policy for the company to insure that they get their investment back out of you. It doesn't cost you anything. The grill is hot, the pool is luke, welcome aboard. This is airline number three for me, and I have no complaints here. Don't sweat this contract thing, unless you plan on leaving, which most folks don't.

Cheers.

 

[flyguy81]

you don't pay unless you up and quit within the 2 years. if you are fired or "let go" you don't owe anything. wording might be goofy but that's the gist.

 

[bvt1151]

Just like CHQ would never fire out of seniority....right?

 

[pb1900]

Two people failed training in my class and they did not have to pay the $15,000 FYI. I believe they use a promissory note in order to be able to collect money from you under more circumstances than a training agreement would allow them to.

 

[ex j-41]

Does the company sign the agreement as well>?

If not just cross out what areas you don't like and sign it. Make sure when the instructor collects the paperwork you slide yours to the middle and voila. Hey why not add in if they fire you for whatever reason they owe you the $15k. I really doubt anyone is going to read it.

 

[BODENE]

The promisory note is just a scare tactic. There is no validity in this agreement that they will ask you sign. There are many loop holes in the document and there are no disclosures provided to you. They basically say if you quit you repay. I have never seen one of these documents acted upon, plus I can almost guaranty you that CHQ is not paying the required taxes on all these notes they have. That is it self will get you out of it....

Good luck...

 

[tomcash]

Almost everyone has a training contract wheather you flying boxes or CFI-ing

When my class read the contract, we had the same feeling but the company is investing time and resources into you with the hope you can pass training. Six guys didn't make it and that adds up to 90K. People who left traded up to the likes of SWA/B6/UPS.

You want to be part of an organization that employs these attitudes? Really, take the advice and get out while you can.

By having a contract of this nature, the company is not protecting an investment. They are recruiting a pilot with a specific attitude... one that will sign their life away for minimum wage. Having a labor group with this mindset allows this company further exploit their pilot group in countless other ways.

Otherwise, when you turn in this contract, an assault to your profession and your credentials as a pilot, know that you are enabling this particular scumbag operation to lower your value as a pilot and a human being.

 

[Skyboy722]

You want to be part of an organization that employs these attitudes? Really, take the advice and get out while you can.

By having a contract of this nature, the company is not protecting an investment. They are recruiting a pilot with a specific attitude... one that will sign their life away for minimum wage. Having a labor group with this mindset allows this company further exploit their pilot group in countless other ways.

Otherwise, when you turn in this contract, an assault to your profession and your credentials as a pilot, know that you are enabling this particular scumbag operation to lower your value as a pilot and a human being.

Whoa dude. Training contracts are not new, or unusual. Relax with the "Lowering your value as a human being" crap...

 

[GuppyKiller]

You seem to want someone to come on and tell you what you want to hear. Not gonna happen. If you want to work with them and go to class, then sign it. It's not like it was a secret you'd have to sign it. If you're uncomfortable with the langauge then tell them thanks but no thanks and move on. Lots of people hiring right now. Good luck!

I signed it, I'm still here and you will be OK too if you sign it. Sign it and you could be in a 170 or hopefully a 190 soon!

 

[dnkt]

Not unusual? Does any major have a contract? You can work for United if you pay us $50,000. I don't think so. The only regionals that have them are the ********************ty ones. Colgan.

 

[sweptback]

The reason first year pay is so low is because of the "investment" the company made in you by paying for your training. Therefore if a company wants to protect their investment and have the pilot cover their training costs if they leave in a certain time frame, it would be only fair to increase first year pay to compensate for the lack of risk in training a new pilot.

I find the practice of signing away two years of your life in return for training that the company would have to do anyway as pretty offensive. As others have pointed out, the company does not sign a similar contract guaranteeing you a job for the same 2 year period.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Many of you guys are pointing out exactly why I wouldn't worry about signing it: it ain't worth the paper it's written on.

It has come to the point where we all agree to some sort of fine print crap everyday, half the time without even realizing it. Pay for parking at a parking garage -- don't read the fine print. Drop off your dry cleaning -- don't read the fine print. Sign up for an email account -- don't read the fine print.

Lawyers get paid by the word. For you or against you. My suggestion: sign it with a big smiley face and the words: "Flightinfo: only the best in career and legal advice!"

 

[makersmarc]

Don't pay it. Go work somewhere with a better corporate climate.

 

[cynic]

Let me translate the contract for you.

"We plan to treat you like crap. In fact, we are so confident that you will want to quit we've got a contract to try and force you to stay. Obviously we could treat our employees well, and they might stay on their own. But you can see how that is less fun for us. Oh yeah, we also plan to pay you poverty wages. It seems like you can survive on them now but come on, you can't. So we definately need that contract. Of course we could pay you more; but again, if you look at it from our perspective, you can see how the contract is a better idea.

Finally, all our pilots are smacktards so you shoud be in pretty good company"

---

FWIW - If an employment contract is non-negotiable (you already moved, you get it your first day after you quit your old job, you are un-employed and this is your only offer) then its generally unenforceable but that will vary by state.

 

[TWAER]

I really love these threads. Anytime anyone has a legit question about something, and God forbid it involves CHQ, it seems all the know it all's and CHQ haters come out of the closet.

Listen, the training contract is a piece of paper meant to keep you around for 2 years. When I worked at CHQ a few years ago, they were having a problem with guys getting trained, then leaving for other regionals within months of getting hired. Like others have said, unless you plan on quitting within the first two years, then don't sign it and don't work there. Getting fired, failing training, getting furloughed, will NOT cost you 15,000.

I spent over 7 years at CHQ and do not regret for one second my decision to work there. Not saying everyone there is happy, but I would say the majority of people there are.

And dnkt, you are right, no major airline makes you sign a training contract. The problem these days is that most majors will not see any new hires for years to come.

 

[sociald]

FWIW the contract is not legally binding in the state of Indiana, and the contract states it will be enforced under Indiana law. Dont worry about it, sign it, congrats and welcome aboard.