Child Support Calculation for Pilots

[Cleared Direct]

Unfortunately I am in the middle of a divorce, and have some questions about the calculation of child support from my pay as a pilot. My attorney seems to be somewhat clueless about the way it should be calculated for pilots with a changing payroll check each month.

I am in the state of Texas and the law basically says that it will be 20% of my net pay for one child. They also subtract union dues and per diem. The problem is both my hours and type of aircraft pay change each month. My guarantee is 72 hours a month, but I usually fly more. The pay over and above base pay (72 hours) is considered additional pay. The child support has already been set at the Temporary orders hearing based on my base pay, but my wife's attorney says that it should be based just on my most recent paycheck for the final divorce order.

1. Can they base my child support on just my most recent paycheck, regardless of base pay?

2. Can they average my paychecks over a period of time?

3. Should it be based just on the guaranteed base pay without any additional pay?

4. Do you know of any websites with information about child support calculations for pilots?

 

[Aeronca]

Can't speak for Texas, but can tell you how it works in NY. I'm not an attorney, but have a little experience in the area.

In NY the percentages are 17% for one child, 25% for two children, 29% for three children, 31% for four children and 35% for five or more children.

Support is based on your total gross pay, less credit for your F.I.C.A. deduction (7.65%) and any other child support/spousal support obligations. No credit for union dues, and per diem is exempt. This is just the baseline and it can vary from there depending on the parties circumstances.

They don't like to use the most recent paycheck. If they do this, they will try to calculate an average using your YTD earnings. Ideally they should use your most recent income tax return unless your circumstances have changed within the past year.

I don't think there are any differences specific to a pilot, except maybe per diem, but that should not be included in the calculations. It seems to me, in your case, the proper way to calculate support would be to average your wages.

You could maybe check with some father's rights groups or something like that in your area.

Sorry I can't be of more help, best wishes.

 

[dondk]

Been there done that! Been doing this for 18 years. While I am not a lawyer, I am "seasoned"... I too am from NY like Aeronca and he is on the money.

Suggestions...

show only your guarantee check(s). Do not present those with overages or adjustments as they vary. If you present them, they "may" take them into consideration. The UIFSA (title IV) is the guidline and since its inception it has clarified many circumstances.

Since it is a "guidline" they have to follow it is listed on many websites, including your own states child support website or you can look up the federal law on child support.

They can assign NO LESS than the guidline unless there are mitigating circumstances and even then that can be a an uphill argument. They can assign MORE though based on many factors, including the opinion of the examiner/magistrate and whether the area is partial to the father or mother.

Also your EX's income is a factor, child support is suppose to be equal, hence you and your EX should be contributing 50%. If your EX is just a housewife with no income you can expect to be on the higher side of the equation. If you EX is a professional making more than you. You should expect to be on the lower side of the equation.

Why is this important? Well, once the order is set, to change will require a new hearing date (usually a few months down the road) and this process once again (can you say $$$). All the time you may be paying a rate that is beyond your financial abilities (can you say arrears). Once a rate is set it is generally good for 3 years before a COLA adjustment.

The Base pay is what "should" be used and you should argue that is ONLY what should be used. Per Diem is not applicable as is any overtime or other additional pay that is not in a contract (if it is in a contract, do not present it, contracts change and if it changes you will have to argue it out in court)
Also, it is GROSS pay, not net.. Like Aeronca stated they only allow taxes to be taken out before calculating child support.

As for using tax returns, they would like them, but I don't offer and never have been challenged on them.

As much as this may hurt to hear.. I would suggest "scaling" back the hours to closer to guarantee as the divorce comes to a close. You do not want to paint yourself as wealthy, you want to be painting yourself as getting by. You also do not want to mention any contractual increases, upgrades, or other factors that may increase your salary. Remember to use or present ONLY what you know you will earn without a doubt, anything else is pure speculation and you DO NOT want that taken into account. You can become your own worst enemy if you offer too much, and that is what HER attorney is hoping for.

 

[AAflyer]

CD,

Underfly NOW!!!!!! Your net and what you pay in CS will be figured as an average (usually over the past three months).

PM me. I live in DFW just finished this garbage and can tell you there is a lot to be careful of.

On a positive note, you couldn't ask for better state to get divorced in.

AA

Good Luck

 

[wingnutt]

Also your EX's income is a factor, child support is suppose to be equal, hence you and your EX should be contributing 50%.

...unless something changed in the last 5 years, not in texas

as for the rest...i would scale back and if it comes into question, ask the judge to utilize only the guarantee to make calculations. when i went thru mine, i was making just shy of 8 grand a month...but our guarantee was a measley 14 bux an hour. the judge admitted that he had no choice but to base my support off the guarantee. much to my now ex-wifes dismay, her "support" went from her expected $1600 a month to a whopping $328

 

[dondk]

...unless something changed in the last 5 years, not in texas

under UIFSA (Uniform Interstate Family Support Act)

Are the earnings of both parents considered in setting support awards?

In some State guidelines, both parents' earnings are considered in setting the amount of the support order. Check with your CSE office. Laws vary from State to State, but parents who can work out a fair support agreement between themselves will have a better chance of having their wishes recognized in court.


I do not know about Texas, but most states look at both, this is what you WANT. If Texas DOES not, I would consider relocating to a state that does and file a support order. The FIRST state to complete the order is where the order will stay until the other party leaves the state.

In simple speak, an order (formal) is given in Texas, you are married to that state, it's laws and the terms until BOTH parties are no longer residents. At that time it will default to who makes the next order first. So if you move to a more favorable state (in your benefit) you cannot benefit from it until she moves.

If you do not have a formal order, and Texas does not view her income I would consider getting an order in a more favorable state ASAP... Only child support, nothing else. It is easy to do, just go to the child support office and file a claim.

To better explain.. After the order is final, she hit's the lottery for millions, you still have to pay the bulk of the support even though she has more than enough money to carry 50% of the order. It sucks, but this is one of the few problems with the system. Your choice after that point (if Texas does not view both parties) is to demand an audit of the support payments. You would need to ensure that every dime you are paying to the custodial parent is going ONLY to the direct support of the child. It is costly, but it will be one of your only choices if the support order is at or beyond your means.

Support orders are rarely "fair" as any guy who is currently paying. Wingnutt is a perfect example.. you have paid for your child so far, does it REALLY cost $1600 a month to support a child?

Hey.. my child is 18, I am still paying because the mom is in one of 6 states that goes to 21... Gotta love the equality!!!

 

[Aeronca]

Don't know if this really applies, but it's a little food for thought

There really are a lot of factors that come in to play.

Again, I can only speak to NY state.

I believe in NY state both parties income are taken into consideration mainly for determining the proper percentages to pay for uninsured medical expenses, daycare expenses etc. For example. Say the payor earns $50,000 per year, while the payee earns $25,000 per year. I believe Family Court in New York will determine that the payor should pay xxx amount of support per week, plus be responsible for 66% of uninsured medical and perhaps child care expenses. To take this a little further, say the guy earning $50,000 per year has two children to pay for and both are in day care and day care costs $80/per week per child. The court will/may order the father to pay child support of $222.00 per week, plus child care of $106 per week towards day care expenses (66% of $160.00) for a total $328 per week support.

Now say that the children no longer need day care, so you recover from that. However, both the children now need orthodonture care at $5000 each. Now your insurance may cover all or portion of this, but if your insurance doesn't cover any of this, you may be on the hook for $6600.

I believe that is part of why NY state uses both parties income.

but parents who can work out a fair support agreement between themselves will have a better chance of having their wishes recognized in court

Best advice for anyone. If you can work out an agreement, you'll be much happier in the long run.

If you do not have a formal order, and Texas does not view her income I would consider getting an order in a more favorable state ASAP... Only child support, nothing else. It is easy to do, just go to the child support office and file a claim.

I don't think this is as easy to do any longer because of jurisdictional issues. If both parties live in Texas, but you think you could get a more favorable order in Arkansas so you try to get an order there, the other party could object based on lack of jurisdiction. If you moved there, that may be another can of worms. UIFSA was enacted to deal with State to State issues.

Support orders are rarely "fair" as any guy who is currently paying. Wingnutt is a perfect example.. you have paid for your child so far, does it REALLY cost $1600 a month to support a child?

I agree with this 100%.

Hey.. my child is 18, I am still paying because the mom is in one of 6 states that goes to 21... Gotta love the equality!!!

That's NY for you.

 

[dondk]

I don't think this is as easy to do any longer because of jurisdictional issues. If both parties live in Texas, but you think you could get a more favorable order in Arkansas so you try to get an order there, the other party could object based on lack of jurisdiction. If you moved there, that may be another can of worms. UIFSA was enacted to deal with State to State issues.

I currently live in PA, have been here for a few years... What I have learned recently (when the child turned 18), is that "IF" I would have filed in PA they would be "protecting" my interests not the other parent (she is not a resident). Hence, since the order was filed in NY they will go all out to protect her interests, even if it against my best interests. That is the nature of the law and also the flaw of the law.

Therefore, if one can find a different venue "before" an order is complete the jurisdictional issue's are only if you met residency requirements. Arkansas or whatever states primary function is to protect the interest of the parent in question, they really do not care about Texas and thier laws or processes. I have learned bundles of information regarding the differences between Pa and NY and neither care how the other does it as long as it meets the basic guidlines of the UISFA.

Since he mentioned a temporary order that will more than likely become permanent upon the divorce he is already almost of out time.

One last note... I agree with 100% with finding a agreeable solution to both parties.. Whatever it takes (and I mean whatever) keep it out of the states Child Support Collection Agency. Some state it is mandated they MUST do the collection, others it is on request of one of the parents.

Why?... If they do it.. it is on your credit report, they also have the power to do the COLA adjustments, and finally if you ever fall into arrears (even for a short period of time) they petition the court to bring you back in on the behalf of the payee and can ask for a warrant for your arrest. It is a lose/lose battle going up against a state agency, fighting city hall is easier!

 

[wingnutt]

Texas does not use both incomes. or at least they did not 5 years ago. it was a simple equation to figure child support...20% of my income

i will agree that other states have better ways to go about this which i agree with wholeheartedly. the one my ex is in now actaully saved me money becasue they use her income against mine and its a percentage. most states post the chart which they use online somewhere.

...but there is a residential requirement in order to file in another state, i believe its 6 months. keep that in mind before you jet off to Arkansas.

also, Texas state child support apparently cannot file against you for being in arrears. all they do is log the payments, its up to the other parent to file anything for being late.

...what an overall morbid topic

 

[dondk]

...what an overall morbid topic

I second it!!!

 

[avbug]

It probably all depends where you go. When I went before the judge, I presented pay stubs, and the judge enquired as to what I do. I fly. He stated that I was lying; pilots don't make so little. Where was the rest of the proof of income.

He had it right there in his hands. He said he knew that pilots made a lot more money, and accordingly, assigned a figure based on what he thought pilots ought to be making.

Presently, my wife gets between 80 and 90 percent of my money monthly; sometimes with expenses I've been paying more than I've been getting. I've been selling parachutes, guns, tools, and anything I can to try to stay up. Additionally, she moved to another state, swore a statement before the district attorney saying I hadn't paid for eight months, and began receiving welfare.

The District Attorney turned around and began garnishing my wages, confiscated my tax money, and began hounding me in court. I submitted proof of payment, but the court appearances and garnishment notices kept coming.

In addition to the above, she took the van, it's in my name, and I've got the payments. And the insurance. She was supposed to carry the insurance, but didn't, and the bank began tacking on six hundred dollars every two weeks as their own policy, before I purchased a policy in her area to cover it.

She went to the DA and swore out complaints charging all manner of child abuse, and tried to prevent me seeing the kids on the claim that as a pilot, I have access to airplanes and could spirit the children away to colombia.

The protective orders she filed (in two states) were immediately thrown out, but it's been one heckuva battle. I spent the first year living in a hangar, lost my house, vehicle, and most everything else I owned. She took every dish I had, save one, and only because the dog was eating off of it. Then I lost the dog.

Now, a year and a half later, things are a little better...but not much. I don't have company insurance right now, and must maintain a separate policy for the kids by court order. That's not cheap, and it's in addition to other expenses. She left me with numerous bills, unpaid accounts, etc...also now my problem. I only get to see the kids briefly a couple of times a month, and must drive ten hours to get there. I maintain an apartment with their toys and familiar things about an hour and a half from where they live...and that's an added expense. Visiting them typically costs several hundred dollars in time off, expenses, and their needs.

Between taking contract labor and working extra side jobs, and anything else I can get from temporary flying assignments to turning wrenches, it's sort of a day to day thing. But far from cheap, and there's nothing left over at the end of the day.

She drives a new van I'm stuck with paying for, I drive a fifteen year old car that's down to three cylinders out of four, with a ten hour commute.

Additionally, she frequently tells me that the kids need this or that; new shoes for school, or they don't have medicine...etc (she refuses to use the insurance I pay for; she uses medicaid, instead, and generally refuses to seek medical attention for the children). These are all added expenses.

Having set that out, I'll add that my only purpose and function in life is to see that those children are taken care of. What becomes of me is not important or relevant; live or die, all that matters is those children. Paying for them is no chore; it's a privilege, and one I wouldn't consider shirking.

Seeking out the way to pay the least amount of child support or scrape by with the bare minimum in support given to one's children is low, and dispcable in my book. It sickens me. These are your children; support shouldn't have to be mandated; it should be given freely. Trying to weasel out of it is beneath contempt, as is trying to skate by while paying the absolute bare minimum possible. You're responsible for the kids. Deal with it.

 

[AAflyer]

Avbug,

Not sure wether that was a fishtale or not, but these days it is strictly a formula and proof of paychecks. What you say would force lawyers, and doctors to pay 80-90% of their income because no lawyer could only make 50K (many do). By the way, how does the money get taken? The Fair Credit Act only allows 65% of ones paycheck to be garnished. While you may pay more they can not take it from you.

If you are serious about what you wrote you should go back for modification. Fathers (and or Husbands) are not getting hit as hard as they used to.

P.S. Why did you not appeal, an appealate court would have had a field day with the way they imputed your income.

AA

 

[avbug]

No fishtale; the child support and alimony order is in one court in one state, and another state is garnishing wages, confiscating taxes, etc. I can't afford an attorney in either state. I had no deep pockets, so as soon as the divorce was final (eighteen months, for an uncontested divorce!), my attorney jumped ship.

As I stated, it's not all child support. There's alimony, insurance, vehicle, multiple payments and accounts left behind, the children's daily needs (which she isn't meeting; the kids are in a small trailer on the desert, little heat, poor cooling, not enough room, and a dirt floor for one of the "basement" rooms). The child support itself was set on income provided plus the judge's assesment; the alimony was strictly set based on what the judge thought I ought to be making.

Every time I've returned to court, several times now to bring Orders to Show cause to attack her for contempt of court (failure to allow visitation, provide proof of medical care, child abuse, etc), the courts have refused to even hear the case; they rule for her because she is a woman and the mother before it even gets out of the gate. It's a woman's world.

Women have choices, men have obligations. Like it or lump it, thems the facts.

Fathers are not getting hit as hard as they used to? Uh-huh. Right.

On top of everything I'm paying in one state, garnishment orders came from another state; that's double payment, when the garnishing state refused to recognize that I was paying...after all, they had a sworn statement by the ex that she wasn't getting money from me, and refused to visit my proofs of payment.

It's all well documented, too. I set up a dedicated checking account titled a Child Support Account. I pay into it. I xerox the checks to her, I send them certified, with return receipt. I have xeroxes and mail documents showing it is sent, bank statements showing it's received and cashed. I have hundreds of pages of documentation, usually showing that I've paid much more each month than I'm required to pay. A recent court appearance was the DA in her location trying to take me for two specific months. I was able to show I had paid an additional six hundred dollars one month, and five hundred the next due to the needs of the children. I was fortunate to be turning a prop over a fire those two months, and was able to stay afloat.

For eighteen months, I was counselled by two different attorneys to avoid a appellate court until the divorce was final, and to concentrate on proving child abuse in order to protect the kids. The courts refused to hear it, I didn't turn to appelate court, and now I'm out of that state, too. The travel to that state to pursue it becomes expensive and difficult. It's not a simple affair, nor one I've dealt with lying down. It's been a bloody fight and will continue to be so...and it's no fish tale.

 

[crash-proof]

I don't even have kids yet... and these stories give me the creeps!
My wife is "planning" to have a kid in 2005, as we've been happily married with none for 5 years. Seems like kids really tie the noose even harder, well, as if no one knew that.

 

[AAflyer]

Avbug,

I am sorry to hear it. I got out a marriage without paying ANY alimony. Infact in the final decree the judge ripped her a new one, saying the only way she was going to get money was to get up in the morning and go to work like the other 99% of woman in Oseola county.

I also got joint custody. In fact she started being flaky with the kids recently and I yanked her back into court. The judge was furious!!! He said if she kept this up, SHE was putting herself in a position where I could end up with SOLE!!! (A DAD!!!)

The judge is pro-father. After a 2 year contested divorce I feel very lucky! I have friends that are going through this in other states and their results have been pleasing compared to the old days. I guess if it is still going on I should feel extra lucky.

AA

 

[dondk]

Avbug,

I read your post too.. Some of it sounds a little hard to believe, if it is accurate then you are a testament to the wrongs of the system.

The system is flawed and I think we all can agree on it. Also, I do not hear any of us suggesting to Cleared Direct to avoid or run from the obligation. We are all suggesting way to "protect" his interest's as we have seen the evil's of the system.

If he should be able to protect his interest's then he may have the funds to fight any battles in the future, and if no battles present themselves then he can be more generous on those holidays and birthday's.


I agree with AAflyer, the FCRA is clear on what can and cannot be garnished. Also there is the federal poverty line, NO garnishment can bring you below this magical number (about $12,000).

Years ago, I worked for Mesa (they are based in PHX), I was domiciled in PA. under a NY court order. Mesa attempted to garnish my wages based on the prevailing allowed garnishment of Arizona. They did that until I threaten to sue them (Mesa) for violating a court order. The order that it set for child support is an order that only the ruling state can change, no other state can enforce thier will upon a standing order. Although I will add, many will try as well as the agencies who will take more than the FCRA and bring one below proverty level. This will continue until you simply petition the family court to review your case.

I live in PIT, my next hearing is in NY.. I am doing electronic testimony. I do not have to drive (300 miles) to NY for my hearing, I will drive 10 miles to my court and do it via telehone. The UISFA allows for this to decrease the burden on non-custidial parents .

The system is getting better for fathers, albeit slowly.. I wish I had some of the protections I have today that I really could have used 10 years ago.

There are fathers rights, we have the right to have a life as well.. I did bring my child into the world, I also have 5 others (current wife) that should not receive any less.

I wish you the best of luck avbug, maybe though you should be picking the battles you can win first before going for what appears to be the prize of custody.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Man Your need Johnny Fuggin Cochran

Get the nastiest shark in the ocean, the John Ornstein of Family Lawyers! The next few weeks could take YEARS to unravel. The Child Support Industry is nothing more than a thinly veiled jobs program for post menopausal fat a$$ed idiots who can't get a real job...they become CSE drones. It may suck, but don't let the ba$tards get ya down, TRUST NO ONE in the "system" If ya ain't got the bucks for a shyster lawyer, got to www.deltabravo.net/custody for some great advice. Good luck!!!!

 

[ChinaClipper]

BTW.....a couple points...

1) It is crucial for you to find out if Child Support orders include "overtime" pay provisions. Some states say that VOLUNTARY overtime, that which is not mandatory to keep your job, is NOT included in support calculations. 2) Some states allow for " the deducting reasonable and necessary expenses the result of the production of income" to be subtracted from the amount used to calculate support. It is probably intended for business owners, but the expenses you have on the road are NECESSARY to produce income. Add up food alone and you'll get the idea. The law rarely states that Earned Income is not what the deductions are for, but fight it anyway. The point is that money used to MAKE your money are not for personal benefit (ie vacations, unnecessary expenses, luxury items) 3) The states are under pressure to extract EVERY DIME they can from noncustodial parents to meet federal matching fund quotas. The more the get from you, the more they get from Uncle Sam. Sad thing is they use your kids to lay a guilt trip on you. 4) Make sure that the federal guidlines are followed and get a varience for your expenses and anything else you can get to work in your favor. Remember, they are there to extract cash. You know whats best for your children, not the government. Otherwise you are letting a corrupt sytem, not really looking our for ANYTHING other than itself, claim another victim.

 

[thee12nv]

Male birth control...

Man all this talk.. I can't wait 'til they approve that male birth control shot (that last 3 months ) they are evauluating.. I would sign up now to be a "control subject"

 

[Cleared Direct]

Seeking out the way to pay the least amount of child support or scrape by with the bare minimum in support given to one's children is low, and dispcable in my book. It sickens me. These are your children; support shouldn't have to be mandated; it should be given freely. Trying to weasel out of it is beneath contempt, as is trying to skate by while paying the absolute bare minimum possible. You're responsible for the kids. Deal with it.

Avbug,

First let me thank you for all your information about your divorce and the legal issues. My original post was not about trying to weasel out of any of my financial responsibilities with my son. I was simply trying to use this vast information resource on flightinfo.com to get additional information on what will be taken into consideration for child support in Texas, and how other pilot's issues were dealt with.

Your particular case is the exact type of thing I want to stay away from. It is obvious that you are a victim of the system and your ex.

Child support in Texas is paid to the custodial parent not the child or children. There is nothing that requires the custodial parent to pay for any of the child's needs with that money. I have and always will take care of my son financially and emotionally. I will pay for my child's needs outside of any court order, because I know my wife will not use any of the actual child support on my son's needs.

What truly sickens me is the abuse that has happened to you.

Women have choices, men have obligations. Like it or lump it, thems the facts.

Men have choices also Avbug. Women also have obligations Avbug. The Family Courts in this country also have obligations, which they clearly have not lived up to in your case.

The Judge at the Temporary Orders hearing set the child support at $850.00 a month, and based it on base pay minus tax and union dues. We have a mediated settlement for the divorce, but my wife wants to raise the child support by trying to include overtime, vacation pay, training pay, bonuses, and anything else she can think of. To confuse the situation even more my pay changes based on which of the 3 types of equipment I fly also.

The final child support will be determined and end the easy part of this whole divorce thing. Then the hard part of somehow trying to respect each other as co-parents to our wonderful son begins.