Chicago Tribune today......re(Montrose accident)

[Quimby]

page 20...

But Dave Kampa, a pilot and president of Denver Air, a charter aircraft referral service, said the Challenger's engines were so powerful it could have taken off even with icy wings.

"The extra weight of ice and snow shouldn't have made a difference; it should have been able to bully its way through," Kampa said. "It looks like the plane aborted takeoff. Something mechanical probably happened, and they figured it was better to stay on the ground."

Wow.

 

[atrdriver]

page 20...

But Dave Kampa, a pilot and president of Denver Air, a charter aircraft referral service, said the Challenger's engines were so powerful it could have taken off even with icy wings.

PLEASE kick me if I ever screw up and sit down in a cockpit this guy.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aeronautics and icing revisited

Dave Kampa, a pilot and president of Denver Air, a charter aircraft referral service, said the Challenger's engines were so powerful it could have taken off even with icy wings . . . .

So much for everything we've learned from Air Florida and the need to de-ice, and how ice alters the airfoil and you become a test pilot, etc., etc.

<sigh>

 

[hawkerflyer]

A US-registered -604 crashed on takeoff from Birmingham, England a while back with witnesses saying that there was frost present on the wings and no de-ice was performed.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

page 20...

But Dave Kampa, a pilot and president of Denver Air, a charter aircraft referral service,

IOW.. "I am a pilot and the president of Denver Air...." meaning, - I have a whopping 25 hrs and have a rich daddy who bought me the company to play with and I have NO idea about jet planes but I wanted my name in the paper....?
"

 

[350DRIVER]

So exactly how much ice was on the wings when this aircraft began it's takeoff roll?. Was icing the sole factor of this crash?. Any other circumstances that have not yet been made public?. It is quite easy to jump down this guy's throat but until the facts come out it is nothing more than one opinion versus another. The captain of this downed aircraft had quite a bit of experience not to mention the credentials to go a long with it.

3 5 0

 

[Flywrite]

Note to self...avoid Denver Air...

 

[Flywrite]

It is quite easy to jump down this guy's throat but until the facts come out it is nothing more than one opinion versus another.
3 5 0

Regardless of the accident circumstances this boob needs his throat jumped down after the ignorant statement he made. His "opinion" is the one of someone who obviously has no concept of a contaminated airfoil. Some "pilot"...

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Regardless of the accident circumstances this boob needs his throat jumped down after the ignorant statement he made. His "opinion" is the one of someone who obviously has no concept of a contaminated airfoil. Some "pilot"...

[spoken with the same tone as "but this goes to eleven" from Spinal Tap]:

....but the Challenger's engines are powerful.

 

[Flic1]

As much as we hate the media coverage and the moronic reporters when it comes to aviation accidents, these "expert" pilots they interview are almost as bad. Can't beleive some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths. Seems they have all the answers after an accident. Heard some ex-Navy fool being interviewed on one of the networks and he was as bad if not worse than the jackarse reporter. Can't remember the comment he made but I just sat there shaking my head...

 

[Flywrite]

You gotta admit though, sometimes it's hard to beat the drivel coming from CNN's on-staff private pilot, the incredible Miles O'Brien.

 

[Quimby]

I just about spit out my breakfast when I read that this morning. I didn't know if any one else had seen it....(the story was quoted to the LA Times as the source).

 

[Freddie Spencer]

davekempa@airden.com

 

[Daveman]

This is on the corporate section of this site. But I'll say again, show Kempa and the Tribune this report.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/source/dft_avsafety_source_030576.doc

 

[Daveman]

davekempa@airden.com

I mailed him the site.
And it is nice to see your girl pic. again

 

[KigAir]

Name: David Walter Kempa
665 Hyland Dr
Evergreen, CO 80439

Region: NM
Certificate Type(s): Flight Instructor Ground Instructor
Rating: Flight Instructor Airplane Single and Multiengine
Rating: Flight Instructor Instrument Airplane
Rating: Ground Instructor Instrument

 

[Quimby]

My bad on the typo......it is Kempa......not Kampa.

 

[lawndart]

As someone who flies a 601 day in and day out, I can tell you that they REALLY don't like any airfoil or tailplane contamination at all. In the many years that I've been in commercial aviation, I've only been scared 5 times.... 4 of those were while in the right seat of a C414 with an owner/operator at the controls... the other one was in a CL601 in ice. The term "supercritical airfoil" doesn't even come close to describing the wing on a 601. The boys in Birmingham, UK proved that. It's kinda funny that an airplane that was built in Canada would be so sensitive to ice...

Some interesting numbers based on the weather around the time of the MTJ crash..... on a slush-covered runway at around 36,000 lb TOW, (which would be around what was needed to make SBN with the pax load that they had) 8060 ft of runway was required.... with V1 being 108...Vr 129, V2 136.

(You gotta love UltraNav!)

Considering that use of the contaminated runway data is mandatory per the AFM, if they were in fact using rwy 31, I find it odd that they even attempted the TO.


But, there but for the grace of God go I...

 

[Publishers]

Good point!!!

 

[Bandit60]

As someone who flies a 601 day in and day out, I can tell you that they REALLY don't like any airfoil or tailplane contamination at all. In the many years that I've been in commercial aviation, I've only been scared 5 times.... 4 of those were while in the right seat of a C414 with an owner/operator at the controls... the other one was in a CL601 in ice. The term "supercritical airfoil" doesn't even come close to describing the wing on a 601. The boys in Birmingham, UK proved that. It's kinda funny that an airplane that was built in Canada would be so sensitive to ice...

Some interesting numbers based on the weather around the time of the MTJ crash..... on a slush-covered runway at around 36,000 lb TOW, (which would be around what was needed to make SBN with the pax load that they had) 8060 ft of runway was required.... with V1 being 108...Vr 129, V2 136.

(You gotta love UltraNav!)



Considering that use of the contaminated runway data is mandatory per the AFM, if they were in fact using rwy 31, I find it odd that they even attempted the TO.


But, there but for the grace of God go I...

I was wondering the a same thing. I don't fly a Challenger, but I was wondering if slush on the runway is the real problem.

Years ago I was flying a KingAir200 and was taking off on a slush covered runway. The runway was 10000 ft, so I thought I have plenty of runway. As I accelerated down the runway the drag from the slush became so great that the plane stopped accelerating. I finally was able to break the nose off the ground and gained enough acceleration to finally get the mains off the ground. The plane lurched forward after it left the slushy runway.

I learned my lesson with that and I always think about it when I run into that kinda condition.