CFIs and Checkride Busts

[minitour]

Reading through the thread on the guy with the CME bust I began to wonder...

Is a checkride bust more often a case where the CFI has busted in not providing adequate preparation to the student?

I guess I'm just wondering how you CFIs out there go about getting a student ready for a check ride. When I did my Private, my CFI put me through 2 "mock chekrides" but now that I'm doing the 141 thing, I've found that it's more of a "hey go try today and see what happens".

I just want to make sure I get my students as prepared as possible in the future.

Thanks for your input

HAPPY NEW YEAR
-mini

 

[flyguy81]

even if you prepare the student as well as you can, there are still retarded kids that will find some way to screw your pass record

 

[Goose Egg]

I tend to agree with flyguy81, but I have a lot to say about this. Just got back from a New Years party and am extrememly tired. I'll post the good stuff tomorow.

-Goose

 

[minitour]

even if you prepare the student as well as you can, there are still retarded kids that will find some way to screw your pass record

LOL

All I can think about reading this post is:

TIMMAY!!!

-mini

 

[Vik]

Depends on what they screw up on and how serious the issue is.

I once talked to an IFR student that busted b/c he didn't know what the missed procedure was. Now that obviously wasn't his fault. It was mind boggling how his 8710 even got signed.

 

[bobbysamd]

141 v. 61

Is a checkride bust more often a case where the CFI has busted in not providing adequate preparation to the student . . . . [N]ow that I'm doing the 141 thing, I've found that it's more of a "hey go try today and see what happens".

There is truth in both of these statements.

A 141 instructor has a tougher job than a 61 instructor (see below). 141 forces students to be prepared and ready to learn and instructors to be prepared to teach. 141 generally provides only limited lessons in each unit of learning before a stage check, meaning there are limited reps to learn each new procedure and limited extra training opportunities. For this reason, 141 instructors push their students hard to learn in allotted course times. Even so, while a student may be peforming to standards, his/her performance may be marginal for a flight test. This can mean that 141 students often go for stage checks and FAA practicals before they might be entirely ready, hence, the "hey go try today and see what happens" attitude. 141 instructors are pressured to send students for flight tests, ready or not. That happened to me with at least one 141 student and my pass rate suffered for it.

A Part 61 instructor has the freedom to train, or overtrain, until such time that he/she is sure the student will pass; by the same token, Part 61 is not professional aviation reality. Professional aviation reality is companies providing finite numbers of training units, from the firehose, before a 135 or 121 ride. 141 emulates that reality. Therefore, pilots who trained under 141 and are used to learning pressure should adapt quickly to the firehose. Of course, in no way does this mean or imply that 61-trained pilots cannot adapt to the company firehose - but they may find it to be a shock.

Finally, learning is a two-way street. A good instructor will teach everything the student must know to earn a certificate or rating; the student must take responsibility to receive that learning.

 

[Goose Egg]

Finally, learning is a two-way street. A good instructor will teach everything the student must know to earn a certificate or rating; the student must take responsibility to receive that learning.

AMEN! As instructors we try to prepare our students in every way possible for their practical tests as well as real-world flying. However, when students refuse to study or have some sort of issue (i.e. fear, apprehension, stubborness, inability to develop fine motor skill, not being all that bright to begin with, etc.) that prevents the learning process from occuring, it's like fighting a losing battle.

I agree that there are students out there that ought not be flying (at least in a Part 141 program, anyway) as flyguy said. However, they are easily identified long before the checkride becomes an issue.

-Goose

 

[Swerpipe]

Not just for the checkride

My experience is that a student's attitude is the last line of defense in the system. The FAA issues a PTS that any student can use against his preparation and training. Still, IMHO that is not enough. I only help prepare pilots for the instrument checkride and knowledge from my background (Part 135 operations). I use Elite (at home) and fly with students. My goal is that they are not only ready to pass (that's the easy part) but are ready to work in the system knowing that there is only one instrument rating in a pilot's career. So I train for anything that they will encounter in the future. Consequently, I only train students with the "right" attitude and I don't take on many students. Having said that, I will put my students against any others in Part 141 schools. That's my commitment to them.

instructor's attitude + student's attitude = a great pilot ("natural" skill not as important long term)

 

[slomo]

I instructed at at ab-initio program and because their training timeline is so tight, we're sending them up whether we were truly ready to pass. It was more like is he likely to pass. It was just a mad rush to get them 250 hours and 50 XC in 9 months, and make them semi-decent pilots. Now they're off flying Airbuses. Scary.

 

[UnstableAviator]

Instructors often times get too much blame and too much credit.


Good students, those with a great attitude and study frequently on their own, will often make the CFI look like a hero at checkride time.

Really bad students, although somewhat rare, would make Rod Machado look like a clown if another instructor or DE questioned the student.