TEXAN AVIATOR
Bewbies
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 1,132
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
CFI ride in a week, advice?
- Thread starter TEXAN AVIATOR
- Start date
- Watchers 4
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
CFI practical
A few tips:
1. Know, live and breathe the FOI. You should do so, anyway, as a flight instructor. The FOI is how we conduct business. Despite what others might believe, its precepts really work.
2. You will be held responsible for material contained in all FAA publications listed for your practical. FAA pubs are what you must know, must do, how to do it and how to explain it. They are the FAA's last word. Know them well and bring them with you to the practical. Leave Kershner etc. at home.
3. Do not stop teaching until the fed hands you your wet Temporary and asks you to sign it. Do not go silent during the flight. Going silent might be the first step toward a pink.
4. Get plenty of rest. Go to bed early. You'll be glad you did.
Hope this helps. Plenty of other excellent tips on the board if you run a search.
Good luck with your practical.
A few tips:
1. Know, live and breathe the FOI. You should do so, anyway, as a flight instructor. The FOI is how we conduct business. Despite what others might believe, its precepts really work.
2. You will be held responsible for material contained in all FAA publications listed for your practical. FAA pubs are what you must know, must do, how to do it and how to explain it. They are the FAA's last word. Know them well and bring them with you to the practical. Leave Kershner etc. at home.
3. Do not stop teaching until the fed hands you your wet Temporary and asks you to sign it. Do not go silent during the flight. Going silent might be the first step toward a pink.
4. Get plenty of rest. Go to bed early. You'll be glad you did.
Hope this helps. Plenty of other excellent tips on the board if you run a search.
Good luck with your practical.
Last edited:
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
Bobby is right. In case you are so nervous you didn't get everything he said, let's drill a little:
Bring all of the FAA type publications with you in some sort of case or bag. If you are asked a question, first decide if you can answer it right away. This is an instant reaction, so you'll know immediately if you can or can't. Can't answer it? Say, "I want to give you an accurate answer, so let's refer to the "blah blah book" from the FAA..."
I'd try and limit how often you reach for that bag. However, it could be the best way to demonstrate that you know WHERE to find the answer to a student question.
Be prepared to teach W&B and other ground topics as well as all of the maneuvers in the airplane. I kept teaching the topic in the airplane until he interrupted me. He did a lot of flying, but I kept teaching the whole time, like a magician keeps talking: a "patter" is how they refer to it. It is much more difficult for him to ask a difficult question if he's listening to you talking. No nonsense, just a continual stream of good information and praise for how well he is doing, unless he is doing something wrong. This "mistake" may not be on purpose, so gently describe the standrds for performance without pointing out the fault directly, unless it is a gross error. Remember, you are a friendly, knowlegable instructor that people like to fly with. Keep thinking that this examiner is the student who really enjoys learning from YOU.
The examiner will guide you through what he wants to see, as there isn't time for every conceivable situation, so be basic and thorough: weather, preflight, briefing, etc.
Good luck.
Bring all of the FAA type publications with you in some sort of case or bag. If you are asked a question, first decide if you can answer it right away. This is an instant reaction, so you'll know immediately if you can or can't. Can't answer it? Say, "I want to give you an accurate answer, so let's refer to the "blah blah book" from the FAA..."
I'd try and limit how often you reach for that bag. However, it could be the best way to demonstrate that you know WHERE to find the answer to a student question.
Be prepared to teach W&B and other ground topics as well as all of the maneuvers in the airplane. I kept teaching the topic in the airplane until he interrupted me. He did a lot of flying, but I kept teaching the whole time, like a magician keeps talking: a "patter" is how they refer to it. It is much more difficult for him to ask a difficult question if he's listening to you talking. No nonsense, just a continual stream of good information and praise for how well he is doing, unless he is doing something wrong. This "mistake" may not be on purpose, so gently describe the standrds for performance without pointing out the fault directly, unless it is a gross error. Remember, you are a friendly, knowlegable instructor that people like to fly with. Keep thinking that this examiner is the student who really enjoys learning from YOU.
The examiner will guide you through what he wants to see, as there isn't time for every conceivable situation, so be basic and thorough: weather, preflight, briefing, etc.
Good luck.
Flyingtoohigh
Think of the Kittens
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2003
- Posts
- 190
TEXAN AVIATOR
Bewbies
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 1,132
flyifrvfr
CFII/MEI right seater
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
- Posts
- 495
I just passed my CFI oral exam yesterday. My oral lasted 3 hours and one thing the FAA Inspector was happy to see was the Advisory Circular for Endorsments. I can't remember the AC# my books are in my truck but I think it AC 61 65D. Someone may know exactly what I'm refering to. This AC and the FAA/AIM will be your guide for giving required training and endorsments. Because I had this the Inspector asked only one question about student solo sign-offs. Make sure you get it. Go to this website to download a great FOI cheat sheet. WWW.edgrahamcfi.com . This too will be very helpful. Be prepared for those dreaded what would you do type questions.
Last edited:
TEXAN AVIATOR
Bewbies
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 1,132
pilotman2105
Ground control
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Posts
- 520
Alchemy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Posts
- 492
Well, I'm in the same boat except my 3rd attempt at the cfi initial is coming up on tuesday (no I haven't busted yet, mx and wx issues). Out of curiosity, what FSDO are you taking yours at?
My best piece of advice is to know your airplane tail to spinner and make **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure it's in an airworthy condition by the FAA's standards before you take it to the FSDO. They will probably give the plane a standard "ramp check" before the test so be prepared for it. Consider having a "PACE" inspection of the airplane you intdend to use done at the FSDO beforehand. That way, they can point out anything wrong with airplane without being tempted to hand you an airworthiness violation. Clean the airplane before you go, make sure it is shiny and new looking. Having the required inspections in the logbooks flagged and current only scratches the surface of "airworthiness" per the FSDO. You will probably need to research and be aware of any STC's, form 337's, etc which are in use with your airplane. Be able to explain what you're looking for during each item of the preflight and be a real tightwad when it comes to airworthiness. Make it VERY clear that you would not fly the airplane if even the smallest thing was out of order, like just one loose rivet, a loose wire somewhere, a fluid leak etc. Even if this is not your real world opinion of airworthiness, you have to give the FAA the impression that it is! I **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near got in a heap of trouble over this issue and don't want it to happen to anyone else!
My best piece of advice is to know your airplane tail to spinner and make **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure it's in an airworthy condition by the FAA's standards before you take it to the FSDO. They will probably give the plane a standard "ramp check" before the test so be prepared for it. Consider having a "PACE" inspection of the airplane you intdend to use done at the FSDO beforehand. That way, they can point out anything wrong with airplane without being tempted to hand you an airworthiness violation. Clean the airplane before you go, make sure it is shiny and new looking. Having the required inspections in the logbooks flagged and current only scratches the surface of "airworthiness" per the FSDO. You will probably need to research and be aware of any STC's, form 337's, etc which are in use with your airplane. Be able to explain what you're looking for during each item of the preflight and be a real tightwad when it comes to airworthiness. Make it VERY clear that you would not fly the airplane if even the smallest thing was out of order, like just one loose rivet, a loose wire somewhere, a fluid leak etc. Even if this is not your real world opinion of airworthiness, you have to give the FAA the impression that it is! I **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near got in a heap of trouble over this issue and don't want it to happen to anyone else!
TEXAN, The CFI ride is where you demonstrate that you have the knowledge and ability to teach in an aircraft in flight while ensuring that the flight can be made safely.
Lets break this down:
Knowledge - of reference material, maneuvers, PTS, all information required to teach PVT and COMM students. This does not always mean that you be able to recite the information but you know where to find it. There is a time critical part to this. If you need the information now (like engine failure in flight memory items) then you need to have this cold to memory. If it is the exact wording of a logbook endorsement, then you can pull out the 61-65D and look it up.
Ability - To Fly and Teach safely. At this point in your training you either have it or do not.
Teach - (Here is where you must shine.) Webster’s Dictionary - to show or demonstrate, to help a person to learn, to guide, to help some one develop a skill, to provide a person with knowledge or insight,
Other words: methodical discipline, exercise
--- One key here, you should already know the material, the student may not. Do not teach faster than the student can absorb. Give the student time to process the information. You will know how fast to deliver the information by how the student accepts it. You will learn this as you teach.
Safely - First if you scare off or kill your students, they will not come back for more lessons. Your students and you should have your own safety minimums (weather, aircraft condition, health condition, etc.)
Always err to the safety side. Always err to the safety side. Always err to the safety side.
Teaching is a mixture of imparting knowledge, guiding, encouraging, correcting, encouraging, helping, guiding, developing and timing. (Yes, I used some words more than once. I meant to)
--------------------------------------
Alchemy, who do you think writes the standards for an aircraft airworthiness? Do you think the **CENSORED****CENSORD** FAA makes this up out of thin air? Do you think **CENSORED**CENSORED** Cessna and Piper have some input in how they want their aircraft maintained? Have you looked at your aircraft maintenance manual to even know what the standards are before you shoot off your **CENSORED****CENSORED** mouth.
Maybe you could find other words in the dictionary to better express your self than **Censored**.
I understand you are at a high stress time and you are venting your frustration.
Inspectors are required to tell you every thing they find in an inspection. It does not mean the aircraft is grounded with a rivet missing. It means you have been told and must report the information to the proper person to have it looked at.
You need to relax or you will blow a gasket not on your aircraft.
Lets break this down:
Knowledge - of reference material, maneuvers, PTS, all information required to teach PVT and COMM students. This does not always mean that you be able to recite the information but you know where to find it. There is a time critical part to this. If you need the information now (like engine failure in flight memory items) then you need to have this cold to memory. If it is the exact wording of a logbook endorsement, then you can pull out the 61-65D and look it up.
Ability - To Fly and Teach safely. At this point in your training you either have it or do not.
Teach - (Here is where you must shine.) Webster’s Dictionary - to show or demonstrate, to help a person to learn, to guide, to help some one develop a skill, to provide a person with knowledge or insight,
Other words: methodical discipline, exercise
--- One key here, you should already know the material, the student may not. Do not teach faster than the student can absorb. Give the student time to process the information. You will know how fast to deliver the information by how the student accepts it. You will learn this as you teach.
Safely - First if you scare off or kill your students, they will not come back for more lessons. Your students and you should have your own safety minimums (weather, aircraft condition, health condition, etc.)
Always err to the safety side. Always err to the safety side. Always err to the safety side.
Teaching is a mixture of imparting knowledge, guiding, encouraging, correcting, encouraging, helping, guiding, developing and timing. (Yes, I used some words more than once. I meant to)
--------------------------------------
Alchemy, who do you think writes the standards for an aircraft airworthiness? Do you think the **CENSORED****CENSORD** FAA makes this up out of thin air? Do you think **CENSORED**CENSORED** Cessna and Piper have some input in how they want their aircraft maintained? Have you looked at your aircraft maintenance manual to even know what the standards are before you shoot off your **CENSORED****CENSORED** mouth.
Maybe you could find other words in the dictionary to better express your self than **Censored**.
I understand you are at a high stress time and you are venting your frustration.
Inspectors are required to tell you every thing they find in an inspection. It does not mean the aircraft is grounded with a rivet missing. It means you have been told and must report the information to the proper person to have it looked at.
You need to relax or you will blow a gasket not on your aircraft.
Alchemy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Posts
- 492
sorry, I only add d-a-m-n to emphasize importance, didn't know it would get the same treatment as our other four letter friends. I'm not anti-FAA. I'm just letting our friend know that he may need to "tighten his standards" on the airplane he brings to the FSDO, lest he be violated for something stupid like a missing rivet. No I have not read my airplane's maintenance manual. I have read the POH/AFM. I'd love to read the maintenance manual and take a look at the "type design" specifications if only I could find them. Are you telling me the airplane is not going to be scrutinized when you bring it to the FSDO for the checkride? I think it's scrutinized and examined just as carefully as the pilot who flies there in it for his test.
Texan just be careful, and avoid getting yourself in trouble by making sure your airplane is in the best possible condition. This is a good practice for all operations, but especially important when your ticket is on the line at the FSDO. Believe it or not there are inspectors out there who will intimidate you, threaten your license, and overall just try to run you off if you don't show persistence and absolute integrity. This checkride is not a walk in the park.
Texan just be careful, and avoid getting yourself in trouble by making sure your airplane is in the best possible condition. This is a good practice for all operations, but especially important when your ticket is on the line at the FSDO. Believe it or not there are inspectors out there who will intimidate you, threaten your license, and overall just try to run you off if you don't show persistence and absolute integrity. This checkride is not a walk in the park.
SkyGuyEd
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Posts
- 33
Good luck Texan, my only advice is to present yourself as a professional (of course) and treat the ride like a discussion rather than a test. Try to involve the examiner during the maneuver lesson. I have had the great opportunity to speak to a few examiners about weak areas on CFI practical tests and here are a few things they have mentioned:
-Eye contact while talking and while teaching. If you don't look at him, who are you teaching?
-Involve him / her in the lesson. Make him figure out things like pivotal altitudes and true courses, etc. Give him a calculator and talk him through it, he is a student (interactive instruction)
-Aerodynamics: know how an airplane climbs / descends. Be able to draw and explain the vectors
-Diversion procedures: emphsize the importance of turning to the new airport NOW and figuring the rest out enroute. Also, mark an X on the chart before turning as a reference.
-Other safety items like collision avoidance (always clear the area per FAA, 90* left and right =OR= 180* in one direction).
-Know the mechanics of maneuvers, down to as much detail as possible. For example, ground reference maneuvers are 600 - 1000 AGL but 900' is probably the best alt because it's the highest altitude in the maneuver you can be at for safety, while still being 100' high per PTS and within the AFH's 600-1000; in the chandelle you need to go full power in fixed pitch props as you increase pitch attitude, in constant speed props it's pilot's discretion as to whether you go full power; in the steep spiral you vary pitch to maintain airspeed as bank changes (lower pitch attitude for higher bank angles); in the lazy 8 your highest altitude and lowest a/s is at the 90* point
-Finally if you screw up (and you probably will) just admit the error and explain why it happened and more importantly how it could have been done better.
Good luck!
-Eye contact while talking and while teaching. If you don't look at him, who are you teaching?
-Involve him / her in the lesson. Make him figure out things like pivotal altitudes and true courses, etc. Give him a calculator and talk him through it, he is a student (interactive instruction)
-Aerodynamics: know how an airplane climbs / descends. Be able to draw and explain the vectors
-Diversion procedures: emphsize the importance of turning to the new airport NOW and figuring the rest out enroute. Also, mark an X on the chart before turning as a reference.
-Other safety items like collision avoidance (always clear the area per FAA, 90* left and right =OR= 180* in one direction).
-Know the mechanics of maneuvers, down to as much detail as possible. For example, ground reference maneuvers are 600 - 1000 AGL but 900' is probably the best alt because it's the highest altitude in the maneuver you can be at for safety, while still being 100' high per PTS and within the AFH's 600-1000; in the chandelle you need to go full power in fixed pitch props as you increase pitch attitude, in constant speed props it's pilot's discretion as to whether you go full power; in the steep spiral you vary pitch to maintain airspeed as bank changes (lower pitch attitude for higher bank angles); in the lazy 8 your highest altitude and lowest a/s is at the 90* point
-Finally if you screw up (and you probably will) just admit the error and explain why it happened and more importantly how it could have been done better.
Good luck!
Last edited:
TEXAN AVIATOR
Bewbies
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 1,132
I saw on a video at the airport that this ride is, "the hardest check ride you must prepare for, evidence of this is the current first time failure rate of 70-90%." I’m guessing a good portion of this is those 14-day speedy CFI courses?
All I know is that I've studied my ass off; I hope I'm not a contributor to the statistics.
All I know is that I've studied my ass off; I hope I'm not a contributor to the statistics.
3
350DRIVER
I agree with 350,
----------------------------------
"let your flying skills/knowledge do the "impressing".... Remember you are being "tested" on your ability to teach safely and your overall knowledge at this point, not on your ability to impress some inspector who has probably done hundreds of rides."
-----------------------------
Alchemy,
The Type Certificate Data Sheets are on the FAA Web site. I copied this from a post on Propilot.com. I also think you should look at TheCFI.com for info. They have a deal on the "Summit Aviation Reference Library" CD for CFI's.
----------
go the the FAA web page at faa.gov
select “regulations and policies” on left side,
then “flight standards service” in the middle bottom of the page,
near the bottom on the lower left side of the page- under the heading:
“Regulations and Guidance”
Find:
“Type Certificate Data sheets”
Current Models
By Make
_______
I suggest you find an A&P you trust and offer to assist in the shop. Go ahead and take the clean up jobs untill the A&P trusts you to do other work for him/her. You will learn something and may pick up some spare cash when the student traffic is low.
Keep the shop clean and put the tools away promptly. This will help you and the shop.
I agree the CFI checkride is not a walk in the park. Nor should it be.
I would not take an aircraft with questionable airworthness to the ride. In the same light I would not take a car to my drivers test that is not legal either.
-------------------------------------
You new CFI's will soom find out that you have only begun to learn aviation. You need to learn the business as well as you can. You need to listen more than talk (outside of teaching time) but also listen to your student. Ask for guideance when needed. Ask for reference when you are not sure of information. There are many people out there who will help you if they think you will not be a pain in the a$$. You have to find who and how. It is part of the journey.
Good Luck and Fly Safe.
JAFI
----------------------------------
"let your flying skills/knowledge do the "impressing".... Remember you are being "tested" on your ability to teach safely and your overall knowledge at this point, not on your ability to impress some inspector who has probably done hundreds of rides."
-----------------------------
Alchemy,
The Type Certificate Data Sheets are on the FAA Web site. I copied this from a post on Propilot.com. I also think you should look at TheCFI.com for info. They have a deal on the "Summit Aviation Reference Library" CD for CFI's.
----------
go the the FAA web page at faa.gov
select “regulations and policies” on left side,
then “flight standards service” in the middle bottom of the page,
near the bottom on the lower left side of the page- under the heading:
“Regulations and Guidance”
Find:
“Type Certificate Data sheets”
Current Models
By Make
_______
I suggest you find an A&P you trust and offer to assist in the shop. Go ahead and take the clean up jobs untill the A&P trusts you to do other work for him/her. You will learn something and may pick up some spare cash when the student traffic is low.
Keep the shop clean and put the tools away promptly. This will help you and the shop.
I agree the CFI checkride is not a walk in the park. Nor should it be.
I would not take an aircraft with questionable airworthness to the ride. In the same light I would not take a car to my drivers test that is not legal either.
-------------------------------------
You new CFI's will soom find out that you have only begun to learn aviation. You need to learn the business as well as you can. You need to listen more than talk (outside of teaching time) but also listen to your student. Ask for guideance when needed. Ask for reference when you are not sure of information. There are many people out there who will help you if they think you will not be a pain in the a$$. You have to find who and how. It is part of the journey.
Good Luck and Fly Safe.
JAFI
Alchemy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Posts
- 492
Hey thanks for the advice Jafi, I have looked over the TCDS, not much there that isn't in the POH. I would be interested in looking over his maintenance manuals and am starting to help the A&P maintain (wash) the airplanes. Didn't mean to come off disrespectful in my original post, thanks again.
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
