CFI required??

[Wizard1]

I'm a current 767 airline pilot and former USAF F-16 and T-38 instructor pilot. Ratings include FE,Com Instr, and ATP. I have an opportunity to help instruct in an L-39 (old Soviet warbird, jet trainer type)and other Chinese made prop type airplanes. My question is, do I have to have a CFI to instruct pilots in this situation? I will get the type rating in the aircraft.I would be teaching pilots that already have pilot ratings. Some with ratings at least comparable to mine. I would be checking guys out in the aircraft and teaching formation flying. I was asked to just get my type rating in the particular airplane I would be instructing in.

I was told by an instructor at the local FBO today that it was not necessary to have it in this case. He said it was only necessary for teaching and signing off logbooks for basic license types, like private ,instrument etc. I would really like to avoid the pain of getting this rating if unecesarry. I have a great deal of instructing in jets of this type.

I'm clueless to the civilian rules here. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Wizard

 

[SPilot]

I'm not all sure, but here's my take on it:

As long as the pilots you train dont expect to log your hours of instruction towards a rating, endorsement, FAA requirement or anything of that sort, I dont see why you would need to be a certified instructor. Anyone can give a thumbs up in a company checkout, as long as the insurance company doesn't care.

If the checkout is to lead to an FAA type rating however, the pilots will need a signoff from an authorized instructor.

From 61.31 (d)

(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must—
(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown;
(2) Be receiving training for the purpose of obtaining an additional pilot certificate and rating that are appropriate to that aircraft, and be under the supervision of an authorized instructor; or
(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft.

FAA 61.31

There may be more to it than what this simple paragraph describes.

 

[midlifeflyer]

You won't find anything in the FAR that prohibits anyone teaching anything in an aircraft. There are, as SPilot notes, rules that require an "authorized instructor" when the instruction is to be used toward a certificate or rating and, more generally, 61.51 requires that the teacher be an "authorized instructor" in order for the student to log the time as instruction received. But the mere act of teaching? Nah.

 

[svcta]

Yeah, this would make me a little nervous. Not because of letter-of-the-laws issues, but interpretations. And I will imagine that the insurance company will settle this issue and require the CFI. Insurance companies are the true regulatory agency anymore.

Is this a commercial outfit? L-39s, as you noted, require a type rating. Is this "dual" in an effort to move toward the type rating for customers? If the guys you're flying with already have types then you're probably okay, you can call it an insurance checkout or just a friend having fun with a friend(as long as you're not in Utah). The Nanchangs don't require a type, so fire away(as long as the folks are appropriately rated othersise...it's so lame, but high-performance and complex endorsements, etc.)

And don't sign off ANYTHING...that will get you busted.

 

[The_Russian]

Wizard,

Would this instruction be toward an LOA in the particular aircraft? Or, are these pilots already qualified? If you have any questions concerning legality, you should check with your FSDO before doing anything.

 

[Wizard1]

Thanks for the info. Yes, some of these guys will be working toward a type rating. Much on the instruction would however be formation instruction, which I'm sure falls into that "Not Required" category. These boards are full of wonderful people with a wealth of experience!

Wizard

 

[oops!]

not needed

make sure you don't sign any of their logbooks as instruction given but other than that your golden... I'm a 135 training captain and I don't have a CFI either...

 

[moonlight]

When I did my type in the T-33, I ran into a little situation along these lines. This is what I know: Up until a couple of years ago, a pilot without a CFI could get a LOOA (Letter of Operational Authority) that would allow him/her to instruct in that particular aircraft. This was back in the LOA days. Now that certain aircraft require types (see Notice 8700.1 Chapter 32 for specific references.) the FAA has also changed the rules on being an authorized instructor as well. While it is still a gray area (the old guys are still doing it the way they have done for years) the bottom line is that in order to train for a type, you must have a CFI. The F'in AA is no longer issuing LOOA's. For more info on this, take a look at www.classicjets.org. This is the website of the CJAA, kind of like AOPA or EAA, except for warbird jets. Feel free to PM me with any questions. I may not have the answer, but..."I've got people".

 

[The_Russian]

make sure you don't sign any of their logbooks as instruction given but other than that your golden... I'm a 135 training captain and I don't have a CFI either...

That is because you are teaching under 135. I am not sure of the specifics, I only flew under 135 for a short time. Any instruction under 91 requireds a CFI. The ATP instructor privledges are limited to 135 and 121 company training and certification.

 

[The_Russian]

The F'in AA is no longer issuing LOOA's.

I heard they were going to the type ratings. I guess it is kinda good for the safety on that side of GA. Interesting.