CFI giving instrument instruction

[fussle]

I am just a CFI, not CFII, and was wondering if I could log dual given, or give instrument instruction in the beginning to someone going for their instrument rating.

 

[minitour]

Not if its instrument training for their instrument rating...

You can log dual given for instrument training for the PPL and CPL though...even if that means a student pilot that will be going for their IR, you can still log it (its required anyway)...

Not sure the technicalities and I'm too tired to look, but thats my understanding on the matter...hope it helped

-mini

PS
If you're going actual for the PPL/CPL people, make sure you're current!

 

[minitour]

Ya.. let the PPL answer it...

...God forbid I try to help...

...so I was wrong...wasn't the first time and won't be the last time...obviously its not a situation you've ever been in before...

FWIW: I was going by 61.195 (c)
Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

Not sure how that doesn't mean that you can't give instruction for an instrument rating unless you're a -II. Maybe in your infinate wisdom you could explain the finer points of the FAR/AIM to me. Thanks for playing.

-mini

 

[midlifeflyer]

I am just a CFI, not CFII, and was wondering if I could log dual given, or give instrument instruction in the beginning to someone going for their instrument rating.

You may log dual given.

You may give instrument instruction to someone going for their instrument rating, but it =does not count= toward the 15 hours of instrument training (including the instrument cross country and the 3 hours checkride prep) required for the rating. That means being pretty careful to identify the entries properly for the checkride.

Unsolicited Personal Opinion: I think it's generally a bad idea for a one-I to give instrument instruction "at the beginning". Even if a one-I is used for some of the non-15 hours on the theory that an instructor is better than a safety pilot, the training regimen should be coordinated by a CFII.

 

[nosehair]

nor can you give them instruction in actual IMC...

Why not? I think you can...

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI-A giving instrument instruction

I am just a CFI, not CFII, and was wondering if I could log dual given, or give instrument instruction in the beginning to someone going for their instrument rating.

You can give instrument instruction; in fact, you have to give it to your Private students. I agree with Midlife, though, about giving it to instrument students. It will not count toward the rating unless you are a CFI-I.

You certainly can log it as instrument instruction given, just as you would if you were training a Private student.

 

[midlifeflyer]

IMC your only excersising (sp?) your Commerical Instrument rating... not a CFII.... so they COULD log it, but not as PIC time, nor as Dual Recieved... so how does THAT get logged?

Sure they can.

Assuming that the "student" is already at least a private pilot, she gets to log it a PIC because she is the " Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated." under FAR 61.51 (e)(1)(i). That's simple Pilot Logging 101.

She also gets to log actual instrument time because she is operating the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions" (in this case actual) under 61.51 (g)(1).

It may be logged as instruction received because, assuming the CFI is actually teaching something, 61.51(h) says that "A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft..."

The only thing that the "student" can't log without a CFII is "instrument instruction received" that counts toward any certificate or rating requirements that use the phrase "instrument training" or instrument instruction"

 

[FlyinTim]

From what I have heard you can give dual in everything but the '15 required hours' dual for the instrument rating? hmmm.

 

[midlifeflyer]

From what I have heard you can give dual in everything but the '15 required hours' dual for the instrument rating? hmmm.

It's easy to simplify it too much. It goes a =little= further than that.

For example, the IR has three "instrument training" requirements: the 15 hours, the instrument cross country, and the 3 hours prep. Of course, they get combined, but a "15 hour only" view could lead someone to think that, so long as a CFII was used for 15 hours, a one-I could do the cross country. That would be incorrect.

Beyond the IR, any FAR requirement that is phrased as "instrument training" or is counted for instrument currency purposes requires a II.