CFI Currency and PIC (as instructor)

[Amish RakeFight]

The regs. allow a CFI to log PIC time whenever giving instruction. This is not necessarily acting as PIC. If the pilot being instructed has a certificate and current medical, the CFI technically does not require a medical. The pilot can log PIC as sole manipulator or as acting PIC.

My question is, if a CFI has NOT made 3 takeoffs and landings as sole manipulator in the last 90 days, can he log PIC while giving instruction?


Situtation:

Pilot is a PP current w/medical

CFI is NOT current (90 days T/O and LND) but HAS current medical.

Both have a current BFR, instructor just has not flown in the last 4 months.


Can the pilot ACT AS PIC and the CFI log PIC as an instructor?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes. The authority given to a CFI to log PIC when giving instruction has absolutely nothing to do with the CFI acting as PIC or even the ability of the CFI to act as PIC.

To go to an extreme, a paraplegic CFI who is legally blind and hasn't had a valid medical or a flight review in 11 years is still allowed to log PIC when giving instruction.

 

[nosehair]

To go to an extreme, a paraplegic CFI who is legally blind and hasn't had a valid medical or a flight review in 11 years is still allowed to log PIC when giving instruction.

...so what's so extreme about that?..and why are you using me as an example??...

 

[midlifeflyer]

I didn't know. But it explains a lot.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Yes. The authority given to a CFI to log PIC when giving instruction has absolutely nothing to do with the CFI acting as PIC or even the ability of the CFI to act as PIC.

To go to an extreme, a paraplegic CFI who is legally blind and hasn't had a valid medical or a flight review in 11 years is still allowed to log PIC when giving instruction.

Okay, but to go a step further... take the same CFI not current but otherwise qualified senerio, does the student have to be current? IE both CFI and student havn't flown in 4 months.

Here's another question: If the CFI is not current but otherwise qualified and the student is current and qualified, can the CFI make three T/O and lndngs during the course of a lesson and become current?

Thanks guys

 

[midlifeflyer]

Okay, but to go a step further... take the same CFI not current but otherwise qualified senerio, does the student have to be current? IE both CFI and student havn't flown in 4 months.

I assume we're still talking about landing currency. If so, the answer is yes. That non-current CFI is just a passenger.

Here's another question: If the CFI is not current but otherwise qualified and the student is current and qualified, can the CFI make three T/O and lndngs during the course of a lesson and become current?

Sure. The current and qualified PIC can let anyone he wants to fly the airplane.

 

[RefugePilot]

One of the debates at the school I work at is over logging landings as a CFI. You can log a landing as a CFI when you are in the airplane, and these landings can count to your currency, is the current belief we have.

So if this is true, can you get into an airplane while not current, let the student, who is current land 3 times, log it as a CFI then be current legally?

 

[drinkduff77]

One of the debates at the school I work at is over logging landings as a CFI. You can log a landing as a CFI when you are in the airplane, and these landings can count to your currency, is the current belief we have.

So if this is true, can you get into an airplane while not current, let the student, who is current land 3 times, log it as a CFI then be current legally?

No, I would argue to the contrary...

Sec. 61.57

Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and--
(i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.

(emphasis added)

No exceptions exist for flight instructors that I can find. Unless you are demonstrating the landings to your student, you can't log them. Nor can you log them if you are "helping" on the controls, because you wouldn't be "sole manipulator."

-'duff

 

[RefugePilot]

agreed

I had the same impression with the rules you must be sole manipulator of the flight controls. I am slowly coming to the impression there is a separate set of FAR/AIMs that apply to the airspace directly over the flight school an nowhere else.

So the question is do you log student landings or not in your log book? If so do you differentiate when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. I do not. In the past I would fly by myself every so often. I have not in 2 months or so, I can't afford to rent a plane, and don't feel like flying on my days off. I know I am the sole manipulator every so often, but dont record it as such. How do I prove I am current?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I had the same impression with the rules you must be sole manipulator of the flight controls.

You had the right impression. The rule is pretty clear.

So the question is do you log student landings or not in your log book? If so do you differentiate when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. I do not. In the past I would fly by myself every so often. I have not in 2 months or so, I can't afford to rent a plane, and don't feel like flying on my days off. I know I am the sole manipulator every so often, but don't record it as such. How do I prove I am current?

I don't log them. If they can't be counted for currency, they don't belong in my logbook.

Some CFIs say they log them as a backup on their students logbooks, they same way they list the maneuvers that were done during a lesson. There's no harm in that, so long as the logbook itself shows which ones are which.