CFI All over again or not?

[flying4life]

I had a CFI/II and as it was about to expire I was due for a FED ride on a BE-1900. I knew of the FED and asked him if he could renew my CFI since he was giving me a ride. He said sure and when it came time for the ride, changed his mind because I was not a MEI and we were in a multi. Whether he was right or not is moot since my certificates have expired. What I'm curious about is, do I have to do everything all over again?
I was hoping that the examiner that gave me my Commercial, CFI, and CFII could kind of do a once over and renew me. I'm just now looking into it but thought maybe someone could help in the run down. Thanks....

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI renewal

You might ask the fed again. Of course, it is his/her discretion if he/she will renew you. Usually, feds who are POIs of an airline understand these things and will work with you.

Barring that, you'll have to take a reinstatement ride. You probably can do it with the DE you like as long as he/she is a flight instructor examiner. People have told me that even the FAA is easygoing for a reinstatement ride. You can fly any aircraft in which you're qualified. Just be prepared to fly all the airwork. Years ago, I helped a friend who was taking a reinstatement ride. I ran him through all the airwork, including ground reference maneuvers. He thanked me afterward; the FAA had him fly some of them.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your practical.

 

[350DRIVER]

Many of the fsdo's (at their discretion) will extend a courtesy and favor to any captain currently flying for a 121 or 135 carrier. All you need to do is go to your local fsdo with a completed 8710, your certificates, company photo id, last flight check or documentation form, medical, and they should sign off & renew your ticket without a problem. This is the easiest way to go about it since it is safer than relying on one person who is giving you a flight check. Do you have to do the entire CFI ride over again? That depends on if you have let it go beyond the 24 months that it is valid for. If you are still within that time frame then go to the local fsdo and problem should be solved rather quickly. As for the dpe that did your other rides that is completely up to him IF you still have a valid CFI... If you are indeed expired then most likely you will have to redo the check with the feds unless you are able to get them to do you a favor which is somewhat unlikely. I don't think the above "courtesy" by the fsdo would be extended to a ticket that is no longer valid...

good luck

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[flying4life]

Thanks guys I just wasn't sure if I needed to do everything including taking the FOI written again. However, I'm planning on doing some instruction with my young lady at home. So either way I will be intense on my own refreshing for her sake. My certificate is out of date by about 3 years now.

 

[bobbysamd]

Ulp!

My certificate is out of date by about 3 years now.

Unless you encounter a benevolent inspector, you are probably SOL as far as renewing without a practical is concerned. 14 CFR 61.199(a) and 14 CFR 61.183(h) are clear in that regard. Most likely, you'll have to take a reinstatement practical.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck with your renewal

 

[JAFI]

Bobbysamd,

in renewing a CFI three years out of date, I would change your “benevolent inspector” to “criminal behavior”. In this case the CFI must take a flight (in an aircraft not a simulator) to reinstate his CFI. He can also obtain an additional Instructor rating CFI-I or CFI-multi to reinstate the original CFI.

FAA Order 8700 and 8400 both allow a Captain of an aircraft operating under FAR 135 and 121 renewal on the provision of 61.197 (a)(2)(ii) “, or in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots:” There are other pilots who fall under this category: Chief Pilots, Check Airman, etc. See the Order(s).

You can renew up to 90 days prior the expiration date and keep the same renewal date - 61.197 (b)(2)(ii). Why is it that many wait until the last minute, of the last day? If you show up late then it is a reinstatement not renewal.

I have let mine lapse when I thought I would never use it again. The company went down the tubes and I had to reinstate to pay the bills. Now I put a big sign over my desk to remind me when my renewal month and year are due. I go 90 days in my calendar prior to the due date and remind myself to go do it!

Now I am “in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots” so renewal is quick, if I remember to fill out the 8710 – on time.

 

[SATCFI]

Agree. I think the best way would be to get your MEI...this reinstates all your instructor certs.

 

[350DRIVER]

FAA Order 8700 and 8400 both allow a Captain of an aircraft operating under FAR 135 and 121 renewal on the provision of 61.197 (a)(2)(ii) “, or in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots:” There are other pilots who fall under this category: Chief Pilots, Check Airman, etc. See the Order(s).

JAFI,

Thanks for the back up on that one. Only question I have is that is this a "given" or is it done as a courtesy/favor at the discretion of the local fsdo.? I have never heard from a few captains during recurrent that they had a minor problem doing this..

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[JAFI]

350DRIVER,

Short answer: -- It depends--

Example: If a person walks into a FSDO and says "I'm a Captain of Wiss Bang Airlines and I want to renew my CFI". If the inspector does not know who Wiss Bang Airlines is, the renewal will take longer. If a pilot walks in and says, "I'm a captain at United Airlines and I live in Denver." and the Inspector is in the Fargo, North Dakota FSDO, the renewal may take more time.

It is up to the applicant to bring documentation. Have a way for the Inspector to verify they are an Airline Captain at XYZ airlines. Airline ID, Contact name/number to verify they are who they say they are. If it takes two hours/two days/ or two weeks to track this info down, then it does. Have the information in your hand when you walk in or have a way it can be obtained - quick is for your benifit.

Also, the Inspector is to verify the applicant has kept up with Instructor issues, regulations, etc. When I ask if the applicant has a current 61-65D and they say, "what’s that" I get nervous. A renewal means that the applicant can walk out and start teaching in a 2 seat airplane right now. I get airline captains who what to renew their CFI and haven't been in a 2 seat aircraft in 20 years. But they want to start teaching their 16 old daughter next week. I start telling them of all the changes, the rules, requirements, and when I get the deer in the headlight look, I recommend they go back and get some training before they teach again. Or find an instructor who is current.

You don't always hear the whole story on the ramp. So my answer is "It depends"

See the below reference.


Order 8700
Volume 2

CHAPTER 11. CONDUCT A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR INITIAL/REINSTATEMENT/RENEWAL CERTIFICATION AND ADDITIONAL CATEGORY/CLASS RATINGS

B. Methods of Renewal.
(1) A practical test may be waived on the basis of a satisfactory flight instruction record, although the inspector has no personal knowledge of the applicant's activities. Caution is recommended in this situation;
should there be any question, the inspector may wish to check with the applicant's base of activity.

(2) At the discretion of an inspector, a current flight instructor certificate may be renewed wìthout taking a practical test when the inspector has personal knowledge of the applicant's knowledge and competency. An example of evidence that may be presented to support that personal knowledge would be a record of satisfactory completion of a pilot training course or related, aviation-oriented work experience.

17. RENEWAL OF FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATES - SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS.

B. Methods of Renewal.

(b) A record of flight instruction as a chief instructor, designated check pilot, or airline captain may be accepted, provided the applicant is found to have an adequate knowledge of current flight instructor responsibilities, training procedures, and pilot certification requirements.


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HBGA 01-02 Guidance For Renewal And Reinstatement Of Faa Flight Instructor Certificates

3. ACTION. An ASI or DPE shall select tasks from the list below, which has been taken from the appropriate Flight Instructor Practical Test Standard (PTS), to evaluate applicants' competence to continue to hold their flight instructor certificate. The below listed areas of operation and tasks are the minimum required that an applicant must be tested on during the practical test. An ASI or DPE may select additional tasks, as necessary, to determine applicants' competency and proficiency to hold their flight instructor certificate. The renewal or reinstatement of one of the ratings listed on the applicant's flight instructor certificate shall renew all ratings listed on that flight instructor certificate.

---A big, long list I did not include------

 

[avbug]

It's a little late now, but rather than call it a "renewal," why didn't you just ask him to include the practical test for the multi rating to be added to your flight instructor certificate ("MEI") while you were doing the checkride? It wouldn't have taken hardly any more effort. Rather than renewing what you already had, you could simply have added a rating on the spot and accomplished everything, and then some.

 

[bobbysamd]

Benevolent inspectors

Unless you encounter a benevolent inspector . . .

I thought my use of "benevolent" in the current context was clear.

My CFI is eight years past due. My only recourse would be, absent getting my Commercial glider and CFI-G, which I could do, will be to take a reinstatement practical.

 

[350DRIVER]

Thank you for the clarification JAFI. My experience with the CLE, HOU, & OKC fsdo's have been good. Is Clint Buehler (sp?) still in the game?


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[flying4life]

Thanks Everyone for the great info.
Avbug,
I couldn't have just added my MEI as I was carrying passengers at the time. I was only getting a FED Ride, which with us is the FED riding along and observing a normal flight with folks on. Boy that would have been nice though.