Ce500

[jparks]

I got a Citation type rating as a scholarship and was wondering how a person should go about getting the SOE off of your certificate without a job flying a Citation. I would really like to just get the SOE requirement off my certificate, I don't necessarily need a job. If anyone has any input please let me know.

 

[noneya]

Pardon my stupidity, but what is SOE?

 

[some_dude]

"Supervised Operating Experience." If you do not meet certain requirements in the FARs (I'm too lazy to go look them up just now), this restriction will be placed on your license when you get the type rating.

Depending on the circumstances, I believe it requires either 15 or 25 hours of flying the airplane with a qualified PIC.

To answer the original question, I would go around to all the Citation operators in your area and tell them your story. I'm sure someone could use you once in a while, to cover vacations or something. Make sure to charge them a reasonable dailyr rate, probably an SIC rate would be best since you are not a legal PIC.

Pardon my stupidity, but what is SOE?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Depending on your total time, if you are really low TT you may not meet the SIC requirements for the insurance, if not look around for some of the SP operators that use F/O's from time to time. In many cases the people in back want a second pilot for their warm fuzzy feeling. In these cases the plane is still running under SP insurance so the SIC is not needed by insurance requirements.

Best to do something like that in a 550 or 560, since the type certificate requires two pilots. That way your SIC time will not be questioned by any future employers. Except for one version of the 550, none of them mention single pilot ops on their type cert. SP is legal only with a waiver from the FAA and is pilot specific, meaning the pilot holds the waiver, not the airplane.

I doubt getting the time in a 500sp would be questioned anyhow, but there are some operators that may give you some grief over it.

EDIT: Never under any circumstance give away your services, if the guys in back want a F/O, that position should pay doesn't matter if a SIC is required by FAR's or not. If you are just bumming some time with an operator that doesn't care if you are up front or not, that would be fine as a freebie. ie. you are hanging around the airport and are offered a ride. If the FAR's, or insurance requires a butt in the seat, charge SIC rates.

 

[Accent]

Where are you at/willing to travel?

 

[some_dude]

My understanding is that only PIC (well, sole-manipulator of the controls PIC, at least) time counts toward the SOE limitation. Non flying pilot SIC time does not. So, it wouldn't matter if it was a 501/551, since he would have to be the one flying.

I could be wrong, though-- it's happened before.

Best to do something like that in a 550 or 560, since the type certificate requires two pilots. That way your SIC time will not be questioned by any future employers. Except for one version of the 550, none of them mention single pilot ops on their type cert. SP is legal only with a waiver from the FAA and is pilot specific, meaning the pilot holds the waiver, not the airplane.

I doubt getting the time in a 500sp would be questioned anyhow, but there are some operators that may give you some grief over it.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

My understanding is that only PIC (well, sole-manipulator of the controls PIC, at least) time counts toward the SOE limitation. Non flying pilot SIC time does not. So, it wouldn't matter if it was a 501/551, since he would have to be the one flying.

I could be wrong, though-- it's happened before.

I would assume that flying from the right seat would count, but you know what happens when you assume!! I have never seen the SOE limitation, but I am guessing that it is just a more official version of "Go get some IOE!" I know F/S will not type somebody with less than 1000 hours TT and some other requirements, most training centers have similer requirements, so I guess the SOE was placed there due to the "Scholorship" guys being below those requirements.

Unless he can do it from the right seat, it is going to be next to impossible to get rid of the thing unless he gets hired by someone flying citations. The SP waiver requires you to be in the left seat or the waiver is no good, and the two pilot birds already have....well.......two pilots! I guess he could rent one for a couple grand an hour with instructor pilot!!!

 

[some_dude]

Now you've done it! I actually had to get out of my chair and dig up some regs. According to my 1999 FARs, 61.157 states:

"May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 15 [or 25 depending on the paragraph] hours of supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the limitation applies."

So that pretty clearly says "left seat" to me.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Now you've done it! I actually had to get out of my chair and dig up some regs. According to my 1999 FARs, 61.157 states:

"May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 15 [or 25 depending on the paragraph] hours of supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the limitation applies."

So that pretty clearly says "left seat" to me.

Man, sorry about making you break out the regs!!!!!!!

I guess his best bet is to wait until he gets hired on with somebody flying Citations. Basically he is dealing with a pt 61 version of the 121 IOE regs.

 

[jparks]

accent,
I live in Roanoke, VA and have airline privledges and am willing to travel.

 

[jparks]

I think the SOE was on there because it was my first type rating and no atp.

 

[Flying Illini]

I have a 15 hr SOE on my DA-10 type. Some Dude's post is correct about how to go about having it removed.
I had 160 hrs in the aircraft before I was typed and the reason for the SOE is that I didn't have an ATP and/or (either conditie on is cause for SOE) I didn't have 500TT in the aircraft.

It really isn't too big a deal. Acting as SIC isn't a problem and most companies when they hire/upgrade you have you fly for a certain period of time with a captain for insurance reasons anyway. Then all you have to do is take the form (Simuflite gave me one, don't know where to get them) certifying that you have flown the SOE required hours and have it signed by the supervising pilot and the limitation will be removed.

 

[pilotviolin]

May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 15 [or 25 depending on the paragraph] hours of supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the limitation applies."

You guys are trying to apply this to all the 500 series aircraft. It depends on the certification of the airplane. The 501 was certified single pilot and the above statement would mean left seat. The others you need a waiver to even fly single pilot, so I think it would not apply. Anyway it is not important. I had a SOE on my 500 Type, and when I went into the FISDO and the dude said I had been flying illegal because I was being paid and did not have my ATP. We argued for about an hour before he got his facts in order. The guy did not even apologize. The problem is that those guys take out the FARS and try to get some meaning from them, which is almost impossible because it was written by people who probably don't even fly. Stupid Lawyers.