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Cat II at ABX question.
- Thread starter AV8OR
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Cat IIs can either be coupled or hand flown (driver's choice). ABX is the only carrier authorized to hand fly engine out Cat IIs. 76's are Cat III and system should be turned on in ILN shortly. Obviously, Cat IIs are cool. This winter we'll see if the extra 100' makes a difference between Astar and ABX; if it does maybe DHL will upgrade you.
We do not do monitored approaches. Below Cat I is a Captain's approach.
On the DC8 and DC9 the Cat II can be hand flown or coupled. More often than not the Cat II approaches are hand flown because you never know how well the old-style autopilots are going to do when they hit the G/S extend at ~300' or so. Sometimes they do great and others they get really pitchy and you'd have to miss.
The B767 is required to fly a coupled approach anytime the weather is below Cat I. I think they can disconnect at mins and hand-fly the landing on a Cat II, and maybe on some Cat IIIs, but some, if not all, Cat IIIs must be autoland. Don't really know those details.
The Cat III approach to 22R at ILS has been up and running for a couple of weeks now. Don't know if anyone has flown it for real yet.
What do I think of Cat II approaches? They are low. If it's right at Cat II mins you don't see most of the approach lights as you're already over them when you see the runway. You see the last 200'-300' of the ALS and the beginning of the runway and that's it. It's a strange feeling going under 200' and not seeing a thing. I'd guess that I've averaged two or three real Cat II approaches per year (flying about 300 block hours per year) in the DC9. I've only missed once and that was because of the aforementioned autopilot pitching problem. (The Capatin hand flew the subsequent Cat II and we landed just fine)
The best part of being Cat II is that you can launch when the forecast is for 1/4SM. You're only grounded when it's calling for 1/8SM which is pretty rare.
On the DC8 and DC9 the Cat II can be hand flown or coupled. More often than not the Cat II approaches are hand flown because you never know how well the old-style autopilots are going to do when they hit the G/S extend at ~300' or so. Sometimes they do great and others they get really pitchy and you'd have to miss.
The B767 is required to fly a coupled approach anytime the weather is below Cat I. I think they can disconnect at mins and hand-fly the landing on a Cat II, and maybe on some Cat IIIs, but some, if not all, Cat IIIs must be autoland. Don't really know those details.
The Cat III approach to 22R at ILS has been up and running for a couple of weeks now. Don't know if anyone has flown it for real yet.
What do I think of Cat II approaches? They are low. If it's right at Cat II mins you don't see most of the approach lights as you're already over them when you see the runway. You see the last 200'-300' of the ALS and the beginning of the runway and that's it. It's a strange feeling going under 200' and not seeing a thing. I'd guess that I've averaged two or three real Cat II approaches per year (flying about 300 block hours per year) in the DC9. I've only missed once and that was because of the aforementioned autopilot pitching problem. (The Capatin hand flew the subsequent Cat II and we landed just fine)
The best part of being Cat II is that you can launch when the forecast is for 1/4SM. You're only grounded when it's calling for 1/8SM which is pretty rare.
steamgauge
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2004
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- 56
Cat II
We're upgrading for sure. It will make a difference. The question comes (my guess) from the hand flown part. Our procedures call for a monitored approach (coupled approach variant) from 4000 RVR to CAT I mins. There is a debate going on whether it makes sense to couple to CAT I but hand fly if it's below CAT I vis to CAT II? We're just grinding through the standards and safety issues.
We were training, until a couple of years ago, hand flown to 100' DAs. It should not be that big of a deal if you trust the aircraft to operate as well as the simulator. I don't. Like LJ-ABX said these old autopilots tend to head for the dirt when you get in close. They're talking about everything up to and including HUDs. Right now, they're throwing everything out there and hand flown is one of the options.
It is too bad DHL ripped all the equipment out when we got the aircraft to save a couple of bucks in MX. Now the wiring is so messed up from that and installing TCAS, TAWS, FMS, ACARS, etc. it should be interesting. But we have to do it one way or another. That's clear.
We're upgrading for sure. It will make a difference. The question comes (my guess) from the hand flown part. Our procedures call for a monitored approach (coupled approach variant) from 4000 RVR to CAT I mins. There is a debate going on whether it makes sense to couple to CAT I but hand fly if it's below CAT I vis to CAT II? We're just grinding through the standards and safety issues.
We were training, until a couple of years ago, hand flown to 100' DAs. It should not be that big of a deal if you trust the aircraft to operate as well as the simulator. I don't. Like LJ-ABX said these old autopilots tend to head for the dirt when you get in close. They're talking about everything up to and including HUDs. Right now, they're throwing everything out there and hand flown is one of the options.
It is too bad DHL ripped all the equipment out when we got the aircraft to save a couple of bucks in MX. Now the wiring is so messed up from that and installing TCAS, TAWS, FMS, ACARS, etc. it should be interesting. But we have to do it one way or another. That's clear.
GoABX said:
R
Rhoid
For LJ-ABX, i'm don't know if you fly the DC-8 now or not, or how long it's been since you have flown it, but for sentimental reasons.... If I elect to abort, your actions?.... Extend the spoilers, call spoilers extended and push forward on the yoke. I then say, "If no further questions, retract the spoilers, arm the anti-skid and continue the checklist"!
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