Cargo v. Airline

[Sawmill]

I am currently with the airlines and do not really like it that much. Any frieght dogs out there that have flown for an airline that can give me some advise? I have an interview with a FedEx feeder coming up and I am just not sure about a move at this point. Obviously you dont know me and you cant advise on what would fit me best...I am just looking for the ups and downs of the cargo world. Thanks in advance.

 

[ukaviator]

Love cargo. With a feeder now, problem is the pay is never gonna be that great unless you are with one of the big carriers.
There are some major advantages though

1) Be your own boss (if flying single pilot ops)
2) Every weekend off
3) Every public holiday the mail doesnt run (Xmas etc) you dont work either
4) No miserable passengers to contend with

Plus if you fly for someone like Airnet, you only fly 4 days a week. Not bad for say a 2 year Lear captain on around $40,00 a year.

Disadvantage are its tough to network due to the schedule (the only guys you know really well are the loaders and the guy in the fuel truck!). And flying in all weather can be a challenge.
Equipment nowadays is better maintained depite the bad rap you may hear.

I also think as a freight dog your job security is a little more stable. Towers may fall, wars may be fought, terrorist attacks may happen, but people will always need their boxes! I have a freind who works for Airborne Express that was back flying 3 days after 9/11, some airline guys are still out of a job.


I think you will find most cargo pilot seem to be much happier than the regional guys -- thats just my opinion anyway, good luck.

 

[gringo]

I prefer freight far more over passengers, but at your level, it might not make sense- I'm going to assume you're looking at either Mountain Air Cargo or Empire, because if your profile is correct, 1700 hours isn't enough to get you in the Caravan at CSA or Baron or whoever else is out there.

Although MAC is a good company (I put in almost 2 years there), most FO's bail and go to the regionals, simply because the upgrade potential is better there. I myself left for ASA, because it would take me just as much time to upgrade at ASA (4-5 years) as it would at MAC, except at MAC the normal progression also takes you through the Caravan. (If you can start off in the Caravan, you're much better off) The end result- I'd make Captain in just about as much time, but I'd have jet and glass cockpit experience at the regionals, whereas MAC gave me neither.

As an FO, your pay is going to suffer- you do well your first year (25k), but it only goes up 1.5k a year- not very significant at all. You can make much more your second year at most regionals.

Also, there are no travel bennies, other than some jumpseats. May or may not be an issue.

You might be based with an airplane, like at LCK (the most god-awful run in history), or you could be a floater- getting perdiem, but always on the road. You get very little time off, because you usually travel on the weekend.

Oh yeah, you'll only average about 500 hours a year.

Of course, after flying at ASA for a bit, I left to go fly cargo, but that was in a DC-10 operation, completely different than going back to MAC. That all being said, I love flying cargo- no pax who bitch, no fat or gay flight attendants who bitch, no gate agents who bitch... but given the choice between a regional and MAC, I'd probably go find a good regional and park myself there for a few years.

Now if you can get offered a Captain slot at MAC, well, all bets are off then.

 

[big_al]

Hey Gringo, great info. My question is, why does MAC or Empire require less hours than CSA and Baron?

 

[gringo]

Because you'll get hired on as an SIC in either the Fokker or the ATR. You need more time (2000 hours, if I'm not mistaken, but I can't quite remember) to fly solo in the Caravan, which is all that CSA and Baron operate.

One thing that MAC has going for it is their South American contract, although I understand that it's harder for the FO's to get that, as they have 2 locals down there flying as SIC. You spend 6 weeks on, 2 off (was 4 on, 2 off when I left) flying 2-3 times a week from Buenos Aires to Campinas. It was a pretty sweet deal, and I still miss it to this day. Only MAC has this; Empire didn't get the contract.

 

[On Your Six]

I prefer freight far more over passengers, but at your level, it might not make sense- I'm going to assume you're looking at either Mountain Air Cargo or Empire, because if your profile is correct, 1700 hours isn't enough to get you in the Caravan at CSA or Baron or whoever else is out there.

Although MAC is a good company (I put in almost 2 years there), most FO's bail and go to the regionals, simply because the upgrade potential is better there. I myself left for ASA, because it would take me just as much time to upgrade at ASA (4-5 years) as it would at MAC, except at MAC the normal progression also takes you through the Caravan. (If you can start off in the Caravan, you're much better off) The end result- I'd make Captain in just about as much time, but I'd have jet and glass cockpit experience at the regionals, whereas MAC gave me neither.

As an FO, your pay is going to suffer- you do well your first year (25k), but it only goes up 1.5k a year- not very significant at all. You can make much more your second year at most regionals.

Also, there are no travel bennies, other than some jumpseats. May or may not be an issue.

You might be based with an airplane, like at LCK (the most god-awful run in history), or you could be a floater- getting perdiem, but always on the road. You get very little time off, because you usually travel on the weekend.

Oh yeah, you'll only average about 500 hours a year.

Of course, after flying at ASA for a bit, I left to go fly cargo, but that was in a DC-10 operation, completely different than going back to MAC. That all being said, I love flying cargo- no pax who bitch, no fat or gay flight attendants who bitch, no gate agents who bitch... but given the choice between a regional and MAC, I'd probably go find a good regional and park myself there for a few years.

Now if you can get offered a Captain slot at MAC, well, all bets are off then.

How did you like returning to analog after flying the glass cockpit on the CRJ? Did you find that a difficult transition back to the non-automated cockpit? I have flown glass now for a few years and I can't imagine going back...

 

[gringo]

I only got about 300 hours with the magic, so I didn't find it especially difficult to transition back, but it was challenging. Having over 700 hours in the F-27 helped, especially down in South America, where we flew for 5 hours with no autopilot, usually to shoot some wacked out VOR/NDB approach. Also helps that the DC-10 is about the most docile airplane I've flown... sure do miss the magic, though. Made my life sooooooooo much easier!

I could imagine having problems, though. My sim partner was a furloughed USAir guy flying at Mesa (I think). To say that his instrument skills were horrible would be a great understatement.

The autopilot is a little counter-intuitive, as well. The RJ autopilot logic made sense, but some of the things you have to do to get the -10 autopilot to do what you ask it take getting used to. Considering that it's first generation magic, though, I think they did a pretty good job. You just get spoiled on the RJ.

 

[Sawmill]

Thanks for the input guys. A little more info: I am not looking to fly jets as I am already there. Its alright but I would not miss it if I went cargo. I have been told that I would be put in a Caravan based where I already live so no commuting. The pay is better than the regional 1st year pay (what job isnt?)and equilivant to the 2nd year pay...after that the regional pay goes up a little faster. The way I am looking at it is flying 10 hours a week with weekends off verses God knows what with the airlines, commuting an hour and a half to my base (driving),and on reserve for the next year at a minimum. My instrument skills are descent (from what I have been told) and I am thinking they will only get better if I am flying cargo. Also, do the vans have autopilot? Just curious...not a big deal if they do not. Anyway, an more input would be appreciated. Thanks. Sawmill

 

[gringo]

Well, I guess it really depends on what your career aspirations are. If you want to move on to the majors, or FedEX or UPS, I think you'd be better off where you are. (Unless your regional sucks- you never disclosed who you work for).

If you're more interested in staying home with the wife and kids, and not making flying a long term career, then the 'Van option dosen't sound bad at all. But if you want to move up, there's better options where you are (or another regional, like CHQ).

Consider that Caravan time, although it's turbine and PIC, isn't really looked at the same way as say, King Air PIC. And if you're looking at MAC or Empire, with aspirations to upgrade to the ATR, that might take a long time. I know of more than a few Caravan drivers who ultimitley quit to go to a regional, and to start over where you are right now, as an FO. It's concievable that you could take this Van job, spend 3-5 years flying it, only to finally quit and start over where you are now. I've seen it happen.

The only way I could recommend making the switch is if you can get some guarantee that you'll be upgraded to the ATR, which I doubt you'll get (I know of one guy who flew the Van for over 10 years before he got into the F-27. Don't know if it was his choice or just company needs, but you get the idea.)

If flying is a career for you, take this advice- when you switch jobs, always try to move UP on the next one. A lateral move only makes your life more miserable, because you're starting over again at basically the same place on the ladder. The only way a lateral move makes any sense is if your current company just really sucks, and you get a good deal elsewhere; a friend of mine was an FO at AWAC, and hated it (always on reserve). He bailed and went to Shuttle America, where he's now flying the E-175 (or 195?) and loves it. Off reserve in less than a year, much better QOL. Best decision he ever made.

I know of several guys at MAC and Baron who love flying the 'van, but they're all older (2nd career guys) with families at home, with wives who make as much or more than them. If this is your situation, then it might make sense. If you're younger looking to make this a long term career, it might not be the best move. Only you can decide.

 

[big_al]

I thought empire has a few ATRs, one in ONT?