Career Path To Commercial Pilot

[hypnoman]

Hi, first time poster here. Hopefully this is in the right spot.

I am looking for advice. To any pilots out there, if you had to start over, what path would you take to get to a commercial airliner or private company?

Is going to University or College worth it? Is it even needed? I am looking at spending $150k on a 4 year degree but I want to fly. I know most companies don't require a post secondary education but I also don't want to not get a degree and regret it later. $150K on a degree I won't use is also not a path I want to take. The only course I can see taking is an aviation management (4 years to get a masters degree). Tough to think I could but a Cessna and not spend 4 years for something I am never going to use but is a check box on an HR hiring list.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am from Toronto Ontario Canada but want to work anywhere.

Thank you in advance.

 

[FlyBigE]

You have a few options.

1. Go to a 4 year aviation university and easily spend 200k+ on a 4 year aviation degree and ratings.

2. Apply and pay for one of the direct entry programs at an airline (zero to hero) program. They won't give you a degree and it costs about 150k. You will go through their flight school, be evaluated constantly, become CFI and get to 1500 hours that way or for fly a regional until 1500 hours, then be brought in as a new hire at that major. (Note: Older pilots that came up through the ranks the hard way will not appreciate this path)

3. Go get a degree in something outside of aviation and do all your training at a part 61 school, then teach, then a regional and finally a major. This way you have a degree to fall back on when the industry tanks. If the airlines are flushing pilots they usually don't be hiring aviation managers either.

4. Just go to 61 school, teach, go to regional, then get to the majors as fast as possible. This is usually the most cost effective route.

I did option 1 over 2 decades ago and the prices were no where what they are today and the career progression is different now too. It took many of us a decade or more to get to major.

If you are late career changer I would recommend options 3 or 4. You also need to be doing it because it is what you truly love and you need the full support of your spouse behind you. If you don't have either you will end up miserable

 

[hypnoman]

Thank you for all the detail. I appreciate it.

If you don’t mind answering a follow up question it would be great.

In the eyes of the majors, is any one path better or worse than another? Is someone with a degree going to get a job over someone else who has more flight hours or experience? Or does it really just come down to logged hours?

If you had to do it again, which path would be best for the current workforce?

Thanks.

 

[FlyBigE]

It all depends on the market when a pilot is applying. Until recently all you needed was 1500 hours and heart beat to go to the regionals or majors. They couldn't get pilots fast enough. However, the economy has cooled off, many places have slowed or stopped hiring. When hiring slows and a surplus of pilots builds you will see requirements climb again.

In my personal opinion. Nothing replaces good ole fashioned experience. If the market is competitive for jobs. Total time and quality of that time will become important. Also the degree may once again be used as a filter to set candidates apart. A lot of companies still prefer the degree.

I would recommend getting a degree outside of aviation and doing your training part 61. The degree is something that can never be taken away and if the degree is in something outside of aviation it may prove beneficial if you are ever furloughed or lose your medical. Get your ratings and get to flying job as soon as you can and start building hours so you can get to a regional and keep working your way up. Do not limit yourself to just being a CFI, you can also tow banners, do pipe line inspections, haul sky divers and more to build those hours towards the magic 1500 for the ATP license.

Also the fastest way to get through the training is flying 3-5 times a week and showing up prepared for that day's lesson. Nothing drove more crazy than an unprepared student. Do not give a flight school all the cash up front. That is a great way to lose if they go belly up. Only put a few thousand on account a time with them. Everyone learns differently, don't be afraid to change CFI's or fly with different CFI's to get different points of view and see different teaching styles. You will find one that works best for you.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

[hypnoman]

Thank you again. It’s great advice.

 

[Waldom]

FlyBigE, i think you provided very good advice. I just want to reiterate your point about loving the profession.
If you don't have a passion for the work, don't do it. You will not be happy with your life, not bring your best game to the profession, and have nothing to sustain you through the downsides of the job encountered both daily and long term.

I'm not trying to be discouraging; quite the opposite. I have had an incredible career and a wonderful life as a pilot and am excited to watch someone embark on the same path. My point is that a passion for the profession is a prerequisite.

 

[hypnoman]

FlyBigE, i think you provided very good advice. I just want to reiterate your point about loving the profession.
If you don't have a passion for the work, don't do it. You will not be happy with your life, not bring your best game to the profession, and have nothing to sustain you through the downsides of the job encountered both daily and long term.

I'm not trying to be discouraging; quite the opposite. I have had an incredible career and a wonderful life as a pilot and am excited to watch someone embark on the same path. My point is that a passion for the profession is a prerequisite.

Thanks for the advice.

May I pose the same question to you?

If you had to do it all over again, what career path would you take and why?

As for passion, I do love to fly. Flying planes, jumping out of them, flight sim on the computer. I also love to travel.

I’m very fortunate to have a dad that’s taught me how to save and invest. He’s a daytrader and I think my first words were bull and bear. So money wise, I’ve learned how to earn enough that I’d be fine with any down time in the industry. So for me, I really don’t need a second career option other than flying. Aside from personal growth, the university degree would really only be to check off that box on HRs check list. $200,000 and 4 years of my life is $3.5m if invested at a 10% return by the time I’m 50. $3.5m is a lot of money for a check box if I really don’t need it.

 

[bafanguy]

hypnoman,

FlyBigE has given you good advice. I notice you're in Canada so have you asked your questions on avcanada.com ?

I don't know how different things may be up there compared to here in terms of pilot career path. But there is one path that is pretty solid: go in the military and be a pilot there; it's a recognized and valued pathway to a civilian flying career. Of course that may require a college degree which puts you right back where you were when you asked your original question.

If you are just now contemplating a flying career and haven't done any flying or training, you may not be familiar with the obstacles one faces when dealing with meeting airline hiring criteria. It's a frustrating process as circumstances (which you can't predict) may move the goal posts. The college degree requirement is a good example.

An airline may list the degree as "preferred" vs "required" but that doesn't tell the whole story. The real question needs to be who was actually hired...and in what percentage of total hires. If the degree is listed as "preferred" but 100% of those actually hired had degrees, then in de facto terms, the degree was "required" to get hired. It's frustrating because a person like you is required to make big, important and expensive decisions that only a clairvoyant could answer. Good luck with that.

I wish could offer solid advice but the shifting sands here make that an iffy process.

My Canadian relative who retired from Air Canada went in the military up there, did some time at Cathay and then to Air Canada. But that's only anecdotal info and proves little.

I wish you luck. Let us kow what you decide.

 

[hypnoman]

hypnoman,

FlyBigE has given you good advice. I notice you're in Canada so have you asked your questions on avcanada.com ?

I don't know how different things may be up there compared to here in terms of pilot career path. But there is one path that is pretty solid: go in the military and be a pilot there; it's a recognized and valued pathway to a civilian flying career. Of course that may require a college degree which puts you right back where you were when you asked your original question.

If you are just now contemplating a flying career and haven't done any flying or training, you may not be familiar with the obstacles one faces when dealing with meeting airline hiring criteria. It's a frustrating process as circumstances (which you can't predict) may move the goal posts. The college degree requirement is a good example.

An airline may list the degree as "preferred" vs "required" but that doesn't tell the whole story. The real question needs to be who was actually hired...and in what percentage of total hires. If the degree is listed as "preferred" but 100% of those actually hired had degrees, then in de facto terms, the degree was "required" to get hired. It's frustrating because a person like you is required to make big, important and expensive decisions that only a clairvoyant could answer. Good luck with that.

I wish could offer solid advice but the shifting sands here make that an iffy process.

My Canadian relative who retired from Air Canada went in the military up there, did some time at Cathay and then to Air Canada. But that's only anecdotal info and proves little.

I wish you luck. Let us kow what you decide.

Thank you.

It’s crazy to me that being a pilot is so clouded in unknowns. Dr, lawyer, no problem. Here’s your path. Get your degree. Pass the test, take the oath and you’re golden. Being a pilot seems like a dog fight in a South American ghetto. Even just the Class1 medical. Transport Canada says 40 business days for approval. Maybe. Probably not. 55 business days later I call and no one knows anything. Just more government red tape and run around. It really weeds out the people who are just in it for the money. If you don’t love to fly almost any other career seems easier to get.

Everyone here seems to know what they are talking about and have years or decades of experience and it seems that there is really no clear cut path. Some paths may work today while other may work in 5 years and it’s just a shot gun approach and hope you make the right choice without going broke trying to do it.

Buckle up, full throttle and hope you can land without running out of runway.

I appreciate all the advice.

I’m leaning towards finishing my PPL, become an instructor, pick up work wherever I can find it and do an online degree for the paper. Knock it out as fast as I can as most are a learn at your own pace. Make some money, build hours, and take it from there.

Thanks again

 

[Waldom]

That's not a bad plan, hypnoman. You will never be a sharper pilot than when you are instructing. And yes, the profession is basically a crapshoot. Planning and preparation are important, but luck plays just as big a hand.

My career path worked for me but was not the most direct path to an airline or corporate flying job. In fact, it is likely impossible to follow now. In answer to your question, however, if I had to do it over again I wouldn't change a thing.

My parents ran a little sod airport and we also had an airstrip on the farm, so I grew up around airplanes. One of the many advantages to that is that I still fly the same Cub I learned to fly in six decades ago. After high school, I went to tech school for a year to get my A&P Mechanic certificate. When I was a kid, I thought that the best flying job in the world was cropdusting. I was right, by the way; I did that for the first five years of my career and it is hands down the most fulfilling job I've ever had. It also provided enough stories in that brief time to last a whole career. I was twenty-four years old and could see that I was going to be thirty years old with 9,000 hours of single-engine VFR time, so I thought I better diversify.

I had zero interest in the airlines and jets and thought that I had been born fifty years too late to enjoy the heyday of aviation, so I went about about seeking to relive it. I picked up instrument and multi-engine ratings and went to work flying for a cargo outfit that flew just-in-time freight for the automotive industry. They operated fourteen junk Beech 18s single pilot. I knew how to fly overloaded tailwheel airplanes and radial engines from the cropdusting, but what I knew about weather flying would fit in a thimble. The only reason I'm still alive is that a Twin Beech is such a stable instrument platform and will fly with a big load of ice. The company had two fatal accidents while I was with them. I spent about 2500 hours in the recips and 1500 hours in the PT-6 conversions [Westwind conversions] before moving into DC-3s for another cargo outfit. I was in hog heaven. After about 2000 hours in them, I had an epiphany one night in February at Fargo. I was trying to get 5 gallons of very cold and viscose 60 weight oil in the left engine oil tank while trying to avoid frostbite and being blown off the wing at the time. I decided that I had had enough nostalgia to last me for a while and needed a job where someone other than the flight crew loaded and serviced the airplane.

The next stop was flying 727s for an airline. Nice airplane, but boring as hell; the only stations we operated to were BOS, LGA, BWI, MCO, and SJU. I wasn't there long before a furlough but immediately went to work for another cargo outfit, this time on the 727. I stayed there for seven years, mostly on the DC-8 and ending on the 747. That job averaged about 21 days a month on the road. The wife and I were thinking about having a kid and I thought I at least ought to be around for the conception, so I took a job flying Gulfstreams for a charter/management company that got me home more often.

I did that for seven years and then went to NetJets international flying Gulfstreams again. That was a nice company to work for and I stayed there seventeen years before retiring in 2022.

I get the jumping out of airplanes by the way. I have 4000 jumps, met my wife [a more experienced skydiver] at a drop zone, and our daughter just passed 2000 jumps.