Can Skywest ever fly under VFR?

[t-bone]

I was flying out of IPL the other day and heard a Skywest flight that was on the visual approach into IPL cancel IFR and squak 1200. I thought that they had to be IFR at all times...does Skywest ever fly empty repo legs into IPL to pick up those navy boys? Can someone explaing how they were able to cancel IFR while still airborne?

 

[WileE]

I can't speak for Skywest.

But when we do ferry flights or repo flights, we do not operate under 121 any more. Those flights operate under 91 and therefore you are legal if you cancel IFR once the field is in sight for a visual approach. We still use our company callsign, although we have different numbers just for ferry flights.

 

[Singlecoil]

Sounds like they were trying to do you or someone else a favor by cancelling IFR and letting another aircraft depart IFR. Cancelling is perfectly legal as long as the weather is VFR, you are talking to the tower or UNICOM, and either the airport is in sight or you are within ten miles of the airport. I don't fly for them, but that is standard 121 ops specs.

 

[t-bone]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Rogue5]

121 VFR

Our OpSpecs allow for VFR departures as long as we pick up IFR w/i 50 miles, and we can cancel on arrival in the terminal area.

Cancelling on approach when in VMC is just a courtesy for the guy holding short waiting for release...

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Part 121 OPS SPECS

I believe most 121 ops spec allow cancellation with in 35nm under visual conditions and the areodrome ( I like using that word!) in sight.

T/O: 121 ops spec will allow a VFR departure, but must pick up the IFR clearance with in 50nm of the departure station.

-Terminal Instrument procedures

IV.

C.

3.

c.


It was like that at all of the 121 cariers I flew for.

It is legal and common, but some 121 pilots forget to enter the pattern as perscribed by the AIM. A staight in is not advised. I know of two pilots that were violated for a modified base from the opposite patern that was approved for the landing airport.

As a side note: When flying IFR in VFR conditions at an uncontrolled airport. The IFR (even 121) has to comply with the right of way rules of VFR when VFR traffic is present.

 

[Singlecoil]

Re: Part 121 OPS SPECS

It is legal and common, but some 121 pilots forget to enter the pattern as perscribed by the AIM. A staight in is not advised. I know of two pilots that were violated for a modified base from the opposite patern that was approved for the landing airport.

Sounds like Kotzebue.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

SkyWest quiz

Maybe some SkyWest pilot could pull ou there OPS SPECS and dazzle us with the paragraph and verse of VFR takeoff and landing regs?

The one who get the correct answer first get a full can with two cups of ice on their next leg (garnish, don't push it or it may not arrive saliva free!)

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

For SkyWest when cancelling IFR inbound the Ops Specs say:


Terminal arrival VFR. If operating under the VFR en route provisions of B051 or if cancelling an IFR flight plan, the flightcrew may operate under VFR in the terminal area under the following provisions. . .

(1) All of the following provisions and weather conditions at the airport at the time of approach must be met:
(a) Reported visibility must be specified in Section 91.155, but not lower than the visibility critieria specified in Section 121.649 or Section 135.205, as applicable.
(b) Reported ceiling must be 1,000 feet or greater
(c) The flightcrew must maintain the basic cloud clearance as specified in Section 91.155.
(d)Ceiling and cloud clearance must be such to allow the flightcrew to maintain the minimum altitudes prescribed in Section 91.129, 91.130, or 91.131, as applicable for the Airspace Class in which the flight is operated.

(2) In addition the conditions in one of the following paragraphs must be met:
(a) Controlled Airports. The flight is operated within Class B, C, or D airspace, or within 10 miles of the destination airport in Class E airspace; and remains within controlled airspace. The flightcrew requests and uses radar-monitored traffic advisories provided by ATC when such advisories are available, and is in direct communications with the appropriate ATC facility.
(b) Uncontrolled airports. The flightcrew is in direct communications with and air/ground communication facility or agent of the certificate holder that provides airport traffic advisories and information that is pertinent to conditions on and around the landing surface during the terminal phase of flight; and the flight is operated within 10 nautical miles (nm) of the destination airport, or visual reference with the landing surface is established and can be maintained throughout the approach and landing.

 

[mckpickle]

At coex we used to fly the ATR's VFR more than IFR. There were some trips when we only went IFR 2 or 3 times in 4 days. I'll never get over not being able to go 1500 feet up the Hudson anymore. Not to mention not having to wait in a line up of 30 airplanes!

Guess its all what you can sneak into the ops specs and get the FAA to sign off on.

 

[t-bone]

Thanks again for all your insight. It sure is nice to see that questions can actually still be asked with a pissing match breaking out!

 

[t-bone]

doh!

without

 

[RichO]

If I'm not mistaken, the 35miles is for a Visual Approach which is still under IFR.

 

[embdrvr]

Thanks again for all your insight. It sure is nice to see that questions can actually still be asked with a pissing match breaking out!

Oh yeah....Well my Ops Specs are better than your Ops Specs!!! Let the pissing match begin.

Just kidding. Just kidding. They're all pretty much the same although I've noticed some carriers actually can't cancel IFR that easily. I recall at least one case where a previous aircraft had forgotten to cancel IFR after landing at an airport after the tower was closed. The next Pt 121 aircraft ended up going back to their departure airport because they couldn't cancel even though the wx was good VFR.
Also keep in mind that a visual approach is still considered an IFR approach, just one that is conducted in VMC.

 

[wanabe_fo]

VFR to LGA

When I was instructing at ROC once I heard an Alleghany (I think), get told that their enroute release time was 5 hours or something crazy like that to LGA. They got creative and cancelled their IFR and departed VFR. They were just going to try to bust into the class B(with VFR permission of course) and get into LGA. Then on departure in ROC, they were begging for flight following from the departure controller.

My thought was that they must be on the last leg of a 4 day trip!