Can A CFI do an....

[nosehair]

As a CFI-A you are not giving a student pilot "instrument training". You're giving him training outlined in 14 CFR 61.109 for a private pilot certificate, not for an instrument rating.

That's how you can get away with that.

It's actually worded differently, it's not called instrument training.

61.109(a)(3) "3 hours of flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an aircraft solely by reference to instruments."

 

[minitour]

It's actually worded differently, it's not called instrument training.

61.109(a)(3) "3 hours of flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an aircraft solely by reference to instruments."

Well then perfect...it's definitely not "instrument training".

-mini

 

[gsrcrsx68]

You need your II...

Found on the internet from an FAA part 61 FAQ:

. The flight instructor who administers the Instrument Proficiency Check of § 61.57(d) must hold a CFII-Airplane rating and as per § 61.195(c), the flight instructor must “. . . hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.”

 

[midlifeflyer]

then how can a CFI do instrument training with a private pilot student.

Let's start with 61.195(c)
==============================
Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
==============================

A CFI does not do "instrument training" with a private pilot student. Go look at the tasks, you won't see the words "instrument training" used anywhere. The FAA has long taken the position (at least since 1979 - I guess that's long enough) that the "training in flight solely by reference to the instruments" that appears in the student and private pilot requirements is not "instrument training."

Take a step back and think about what you are arguing. In order to do any of the required training and endorse a pilot to take an instrument checkride, a CFI needs a CFI instrument rating. But to take a pilot who hasn't flown instruments for 20 years and test his level of proficiency in meeting a set of required PTS instrument tasks and re-certify him as a competent instrument pilot, he doesn't even need an instrument rating at all.

C'mon. The FAR seems a bit illogical at times, but really.

 

[MauleSkinner]

then how can a CFI do instrument training with a private pilot student.

Then can someone explain this to me, and how i'm interperting it wrong

61.195 Flight Instructor Limitation and Qualifications.

(d) Limitations on endorsements. A flight instructor may not endorse a:

(6) Logbook of a pilot for an instrument proficiency check, unless that instructor has tested that pilot in accordance with the requirements of §61.57(d) of this part

It says nothing about instrument flight instructor.

It appears to me that you're making a fairly common error here...you're taking a single regulation that applies only to ENDORSEMENTS, and applying it to FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR PRIVILEGES.

In this case, just backing up one paragraph might help.

Sec. 61.193 - Flight instructor privileges.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:
(a) ...
(g) A flight review, operating privilege, or recency of experience requirement of this part;
(h) ...

Note also, if you read a little farther into 61.195(f), it says

(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.

This specific regulation doesn't require a mutli-engine instructor rating to give training required for a multi-engine rating. It only requires 5 PIC in make and model. Would you say that a CFI-A without the multi-instructor rating could give instruction for a multiengine rating?

I have actually seen this taken so far as to say that a Light Sport Pilot doesn't need a flight review, because a flight review is not specified under Subpart J.

Fly safe!

David