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Bush: companies must keep pension promises

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Big Slick

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Posts
284
Bush says companies must keep pension promises
Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:56 AM ET
WASHINGTON, March 10 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Friday that companies, even ones that are struggling, must keep their pensions properly funded to ensure that workers receive promised benefits.
In comments to a newspaper association conference, Bush referred to companies that have already or may terminate their pension plans to cut costs, mainly during bankruptcy restructuring.
"People have asked whether or not private companies that have made pension promises should be relieved of their responsibility. And my answer is, if you make a promise, you got to keep it," Bush said.
"I think that's a very important principle to state loud and clear," he added
Bush's remarks were a reminder to congressional negotiators just beginning work on a compromise pension reform legislation that the White House wants a tougher bill than what lawmakers are considering.
The Bush administration has raised the prospect of a veto if its expectations are not met.
All sides agree that corporate funding rules must be tightened and that the health of the deficit-ridden federal pension insurance program shored up.
But there are differences. For instance, the administration opposes a provision in a reform bill approved by the Senate that would allow struggling airlines -- like bankrupt Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines -- to stretch their required contribution to pension plans over a longer period of time.
Bush also signaled his reluctance to support any large-scale government help for financially struggling U.S. auto companies at the expense of foreign competitors that have made substantial gains in market share.
He said fairer trade policies by other nations would be the best medicine for auto company woes. "I'm confident that if the playing field is level that we can compete with anybody," Bush said.
 
I think the horse has already left the barn, but go ahead and close the door Mr. Bush!
 
No sh*t...

Thanks George, weren't people screaming about this crisis about 20 years ago in Washington?

Someone should start a class action suit against the Federal Government for gross negligence and failure to act back then to institute funding rules that would have protected the pension accounts.
 
Lear70 said:
Someone should start a class action suit against the Federal Government for gross negligence and failure to act back then to institute funding rules that would have protected the pension accounts.

No somebody should take away government workers pensions what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
You words are soothing for the American worker W. Now please take them into a Flying Delorian driven by a wild haired scientist and head back to the January 2002. BTW, the government is especially helpful towards the airlines by taxing the bejesus out of the airlines especially since 9/11.
 
Yeah we all know those fish and wildlife workers were directly responsible for our elected leaders failing us. Give me a break. We all know the DEA is responsible for the pension f'up.
 
ALPA has just asked members to contact all 27 House and Senate members of the pension reform conference committee, urging them to include the Senate's language in support of airline industry relief.

If you've received this email -- log off flightinfo, and get on it.

If you don't receive ALPA emails, PM me and I'll forward.

... He said fairer trade policies by other nations would be the best medicine for auto company woes. "I'm confident that if the playing field is level that we can compete with anybody," Bush said. ...

Sure we can -- all it takes is reducing the American middle class to the living conditions enjoyed by the average factory worker in China.
 
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That's great, Bush can act like he's a friend of the "working guy" when really he doesn't give a flying f#$k about any of us union stiffs......
 
Of course, you have got to laugh. Bush is telling companies to honor their promise, yet Social security as well as Medicare/Medicaid is grossly underfunded. Oh well, I guess we can pour more billions into Iraq.
 
... and yet somehow or another, the majority of pilots voted for this moron, like he has our best interests at heart... The sad thing is the Dem's will run Hillary and loose... AGAIN, ensuring that while the words may change, the actions of screwing the middle class will continue.
 
Green said:
That's great, Bush can act like he's a friend of the "working guy" when really he doesn't give a flying f#$k about any of us union stiffs......

Um, I don't think he nor any other politician gives a frog's fat a$$ about anyone, union or non-union, rich or poor. They only care about themselves and maybe their families and butt buddies.
 
I'm sure an Open Skies policy over the US will help retain legacy pensions...what's good for trade is good for America. W in '08!
 
Lear70 said:
No sh*t...

Thanks George, weren't people screaming about this crisis about 20 years ago in Washington?

Someone should start a class action suit against the Federal Government for gross negligence and failure to act back then to institute funding rules that would have protected the pension accounts.

Soooo, this isn't GW's fault!! Just b/c he brought it up now doesn't mean that this is a new problem...why wasn't this fixed when Clinton was in office? Or GW before him? Maybe GW's smart enough to see that it's a problem and it's time to prevent companies from defaulting on their pension promises. I applaud his statements and his efforts here.

How about Social Security...he tried to fix this but people voted him down without providing a viable alternative to his ideas. In 20 years people are going to be complaining, wondering why the govt. didn't do anything to fix this known problem. Then we can go back and we will all realize that GW actually had some foresight in this manner and no one else took him seriously, thinking it's just fine the way it is. I liken this to your airline pension programs that are disappearing. I contribute money to SS, but I won't get a dime when it's my turn.

Shrug...
 
Lipservice...

See, that's just the thing. Bush is just paying lipservice to fixing the pension problem. He tries to act like he's doing something about the issue but he is against giving the airlines more time to stretch out their pension payments.

When will pilots figure out that this guy isn't looking out for your best interest? Two more words from Bush's lips... Open Skies...
 
Who the hell is the US Government to tell us how to behave financially? They've "borrowed" from social security and are in enormous debt and have made all sorts of promises that they are now implying they may have to renig on. If we did that kind of crap we'd be in jail.
 
That's one of the bad things about this board, you can't "hear" someone, so the context gets a little lost sometimes.

I wasn't trying to say it was GW's fault, I was saying "Thanks for the brilliant plan to fix things, AFTER all the airlines have defaulted and everyone's getting screwed."

I was also expressing my irritation that all this was brought up BACK IN THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION, but no one believed any of the people screaming about it. They brought it up again during the Reagan administration, right about the same time the controllers all grew some balls and walked off the jobs (incidentally, they didn't go to jail either even though the strike was deemed "illegal"). Controllers are now re-regulated and pay is pretty decent for getting to be home every night and regulated shifts that recognize fatigue levels.

Hint: there's a lesson to be learned there for pilots,,, but we're probably too greedy to see it.

Now the pensions are gone, and it would cost BILLIONS for G.W. to FULLY fund them through the PBGC which is the "right" thing to do, since it was the Federal Government ignoring established professionals in this field telling them the robbing of the pensions by the parent companies during the stock market boom of the late 80's and early 90's and failing to re-fund them when those markets crashed would lead to financial ruin.

I just get frustrated when politicians tell us something we already know, like it's some new insightful plan. Clinton did it, so did Carter, as well as the Republicans we've had in office in my lifetime. It's a disease born of politics and there's no cure.

Except maybe more cowbell... ;)
 
Here's a thought Illini,

Fund SS fully................stop wasting money in Iraq. It's not that complicated.

Unfortunately Bush is only interested in making his buddies billions from his "war on terror".
 
Flying Illini said:
How about Social Security...he tried to fix this but people voted him down without providing a viable alternative to his ideas. In 20 years people are going to be complaining, wondering why the govt. didn't do anything to fix this known problem. Then we can go back and we will all realize that GW actually had some foresight in this manner and no one else took him seriously, thinking it's just fine the way it is. I liken this to your airline pension programs that are disappearing. I contribute money to SS, but I won't get a dime when it's my turn.

Shrug...

What a great plan W had for SS!! I'm sure it would have fixed the problem! Even most Republicans thought it was a bad idea, but think how much better our SS problem would be if we could have funded it like we did for W's Iraq!!
 
The law needs to be changed so that employee claims against a corporate entity stand at higher precedence than those of other creditors. The politicians in Washingon, both Democrat and Republican don't want to see that because that would mean these theiving CEOs would have to pay off workers instead of their corporate buddies after they ran the company into the ground.
 
Kevdog, I never said it was a good plan, but at least he made an attempt. Instead people shouted him down without giving any sort of constructive criticism. There was no effort to take this bull by the horns and figure out a solution together. Yes, there are problems with pensions (which should be the company's responsibility, not the govt's. No, companies should not be allowed to pay of creditors first. There are also problems with SS...but let's quit laying all of these problems at GW's feet as if they are his fault. And for all you bush haters, can we quit harping about the war in iraq? We all know you don't like it. We all know that when you mention "Bush" that's the first thing you want to talk about. We know. You don't have to keep mentioning it with every other breath.
 
From 1992 to 2000 the phone line from ALPA to the White House was open. It has been cut since 2000. How can we solve our issues if we can't even be heard?
 
Flying Illini said:
Kevdog, I never said it was a good plan, but at least he made an attempt. Instead people shouted him down without giving any sort of constructive criticism. There was no effort to take this bull by the horns and figure out a solution together. Yes, there are problems with pensions (which should be the company's responsibility, not the govt's. No, companies should not be allowed to pay of creditors first. There are also problems with SS...but let's quit laying all of these problems at GW's feet as if they are his fault. And for all you bush haters, can we quit harping about the war in iraq? We all know you don't like it. We all know that when you mention "Bush" that's the first thing you want to talk about. We know. You don't have to keep mentioning it with every other breath.

Funny, that's like W bringing up 9/11 everytime he opened his mouth for the first 5 years to justify everything he did. I understand there is a problem with SS. SS originated to stabilize the economy and keep people spending money, something that was supposed to reduce recessions. People lived about 2 years on SS back then, so this has been a problem for a long time.

I look at the SS problem mathematically. Either the Gov't needs to finance it, say like they do for BS like Iraq, or they need to raise the age so it works. Being able to roll the dice with your SS $$$ was a really bad idea. If that was to be the case, why not just stop paying in and invest all your money in the market. Chances are you'd be ahead. My portfolio has been making about 15% on average. My SS portfolio will yield me nothing.
 
Lear70 said:
... right about the same time the controllers all grew some balls and walked off the jobs (incidentally, they didn't go to jail either even though the strike was deemed "illegal"). Controllers are now re-regulated and pay is pretty decent for getting to be home every night and regulated shifts that recognize fatigue levels. ...

Some did go to jail. And what's the rest of your point? The striking controllers were fired and blackballed -- with only a handful of exceptions, they never returned to controlling; after all, a fired or striking controller can't exactly go across town to some other ATC agency and get a job. In point of fact, many current controllers are scabs (i.e., they crossed picket lines to get the job).

Your point about the balls was correct, though. But working for the FAA still sucks, probably worse than ever.

<You may return to your regularly scheduled argument now. ;) >
 
81Horse said:
Some did go to jail.
A very small handfull and for all of a few days. Charges later dropped.

And what's the rest of your point? The striking controllers were fired and blackballed -- with only a handful of exceptions, they never returned to controlling; after all, a fired or striking controller can't exactly go across town to some other ATC agency and get a job. In point of fact, many current controllers are scabs (i.e., they crossed picket lines to get the job).
Incorrect. Very few current controllers are scabs. A very SMALL number crossed, and some DID get jobs back AFTER they were fired and the union said they were finished.

The POINT is that they stood up, drew a line, and it WORKED. Wages went back up, so did benefits. It may not be all rosey working there, but it's a hell of a lot better than it WAS, and that's what pilots are faced with now. Burn a company or two to the ground and instill some fear in management groups again, it's the only thing that will work. Otherwise you might as well buy yourself some good lube, and lots of it.
 
Lear70 said:
. Burn a company or two to the ground and instill some fear in management groups again, it's the only thing that will work. Otherwise you might as well buy yourself some good lube, and lots of it.

Nominate anyone but us to be the sacrficial lamb!!!!
 
Lear70 said:
... Very few current controllers are scabs. A very SMALL number crossed, and some DID get jobs back AFTER they were fired and the union said they were finished. ...

Lear, many current controllers walked past picket lines to take their jobs as FAA new hires -- those people are scabs, in my book. Very, very few PATCO controllers crossed the line (in fact, they were locked out almost immediately). Also, very, very few ever went back to work for the FAA in any capacity -- they were blackballed for years.

So, when you point to the PATCO strike as an example of success, I have to disagree. Nearly ten thousand controllers lost their jobs forever; I'm one of them.

It's easy to encourage people to strike -- STFD, have some balls! But it's different when you're up against it yourself. Personally, I would do it again -- and The Spouse is ready to walk at NW; but experience has taught me to have low expectations for "success."

<threadjack over>
 
I object to the concept that these pensions were only promises, and--oh dear were just going to have to break our promise now due to current conditions--sorry. Those pension benefits were part of those employees total compensation packages, just like salary, sick leave, vacation etc. They earned them before the fact, and then they were taken away after the fact. It's no different than if a company demanded cash back from your salary paid ten years ago because times are tough right now. Mike
 
kevdog said:
Funny, that's like W bringing up 9/11 everytime he opened his mouth for the first 5 years to justify everything he did. I understand there is a problem with SS. SS originated to stabilize the economy and keep people spending money, something that was supposed to reduce recessions. People lived about 2 years on SS back then, so this has been a problem for a long time.

I look at the SS problem mathematically. Either the Gov't needs to finance it, say like they do for BS like Iraq, or they need to raise the age so it works. Being able to roll the dice with your SS $$$ was a really bad idea. If that was to be the case, why not just stop paying in and invest all your money in the market. Chances are you'd be ahead. My portfolio has been making about 15% on average. My SS portfolio will yield me nothing.

Hey, I'm with you on this one. I too was tired of hearing 9/11 as the sole reason for things. But, he's toned it down so let's move on.

I would love it if the govt. would just let me have my SS contribution to invest on my own. It could be deposited into a personal retirement accout that I get to manage. That would be great. I'm tired of giving old people my money to live on. I want to keep it in my pocket so that I can have a decent life after retirement and maybe be able to maintain a similar standard of living.
 

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