Building X-C time

[Jedi_Cheese]

I'm curious, how did you guys build X-C time before moving on to ameriflight/flight express/local scumbag 135? I'm currently CFI'ing now, and the TT is about to reach the golden 1200 number and I've passed the night/instrument numbers needed. And it's not like I'll need another 50 hours, I currently have 300 hours of point to point X-C time...

It seems every student, I get 40-50 hours of dual and 10 hours of X-C, including the times we pop out to an airport 20 NM away for touch and gos at a grass/short/narrow field. And the instrument guys are absolutely booring b/c you get two X-C's and never touch the ground anywhere but home base. The commercial guys are few and far between.

Does anyone have a good idea on how to rack up the X-C time? I'll take ideas on what odd jobs to look for or promotions I can use as a CFI to do some advanced seminars that will get me X-C time.

 

[fokkers&beer]

From what I recall, there was a difference between the requirements for cross country time required for ratings, and the requirements to be counted for 135 ops. I think the requirements go old school, and only require you to touch down at any airport regardless is its less than 50 NM.
My friends who were in your shoes just had students do touch and gos at a different airport.
I owned my own airplane when you could fly around for avgas that was less than 1.50 a gallon.

Hope this helps.

 

[illinipilot]

I bummed rides with my students building x-c time for their commercials. Nothing like three hours in a 152, it was free though.

 

[Morettis]

why not have your instrument students do approaches to other airports and make one a touch and go. Or have your primary students go to another airport to go touch and goes.

The whole point of the XC requirement is for you to be comfortable leaving your local airport venturing off to other cities.

also, I forget if it's 135 or ATP, but one of them doesn't require 50 miles, its just any other airport.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I always took private students to the field 5nm away to do touch and goes. Benefit for me and for them, as I was constantly amazed by what they didn't know about entering at a strange field with a nonstandard pattern.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.
(3) Cross-country time means—

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot find any definition related to the cross country requirement of FAR 135.243.

I am 99.9% sure the cross country requirement for 135.243 is airport-to-airport flight time, regardless of the distance flown.

 

[AC560]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot find any definition related to the cross country requirement of FAR 135.243.

Definitions are in 61.1. Cross country is defined in 61(a)(b) for all the various certificates and ratings. Related to the ATP

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

So one doesn't need to land at an airport 50 NM's away merely to a point 50 NM's away and then land anywhere. The FAA also only requires that the first leg of the flight be 50 NM's and then all subsequent legs are cross country. So if you fly A-B-C and the distance from A-B is 51 miles and the distance B-C is only 25 miles you count the entire thing as cross country (recent ruling on the legs issue)

 

[avbug]

Cross country flight time for the purposes of 14 CFR 135.243 can be found in 61.1(b)(3)(i):

(3) Cross-country time means—
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point

Note that no specific distance is required. The flight needs to be in an aircraft, needs to have a landing at a point othe than the point of departure, and must involve some form of navigation.

It does NOT need to be 50 nm to count toward the cross country requirements of Part 135. However, to avoid potential complications with those who do not fully understand the regulation, you're safest and best off restricting your logging of cross country time to flights exceeding 50 nm. It's really not that far.

 

[Air 1]

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you use at least one of these forms every time you flew? What other forms of navigation are there besides these listed?

 

[AC560]

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

What am I missing?

<edit>I get it now I see we are talking about 135.243(c).