Bottom Feeder...

[WMU_Drew]

If Ford uses parts from TRW (autoparts) and then Eaton bids they can do it for less, Ford uses Eaton.

So is Eaton a bottom feeder?

So does any company that WINS a COMPETITIVE bid become a bottom feeder?

 

[flyinhard]

Yep, if Eaton was paying their employees $4 per hour and TRW went to its employees, threw down Eatons Contract and said we are closing if you don't take pay rates like Eatons employees (Even though the whole parts industry worked for 20 years to get the rates they did). Underbidding means absolutely nothing when talking about bottom feeders, pay rates do...

 

[captjim]

What Mesa pilots did by signing off on that POS contract, on the first vote was to screw the entire small jet community. By not putting up a fight they lost the respect and more importantly the professional respect of many. ACA, Comair and AIR Willy raised the bar for all of us that fly 50 - 70 jets. For Mesa to cave is an insult to those pilots that had intestinal fortitude to fight for a better way of life.

Yes, Mesa is a bottom feeding company!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The sad part is that they probably could have just waited for the single carrier ruling to be granted which would have eliminated the Freedumb issue and put the ball in the pilot's court.

 

[8HourPilot]

So if I give a prog check at a lesser rate than you, does that make me the bottom feeder?

 

[FSB99]

if you charge such a low rate that the rate is 'out of the norm' for that type of work done, and for the sole purpose of taking work away from others... yes.

say the standard is 15/hour. a few others charge anywhere between 13 and 17, each get their own clientelle (sp?) for their own reasons.. loyalty and satisfaction from the higher charging guy; same can be said for the lower-end charging guy, but probably picks up a few newer clients due to the 2 dollar cost savings from the average. then someone comes in and charges 10 bucks for the work done. it's hard to compete with that cost savings. loyalty slowly disappears, when the clients' checkbook starts looking a little thin, and realizes he can get the same service for 5 dollars cheaper.
now to compete, the others have to lower their rates to 10 dollars... some will be able to struggle along, others won't be able to survive.
it's pure economics, pure competition. the end result is, everyone struggles along, making at least 5 bucks less than they know they should be.
only way to maintain a respectable level is to lose the 'me me me' attitude, look at the big picture, and see how your personal decisions affect the world around you. i know it's hard to do when your back is against the wall, and it seems that some other guy at some other airline can fend for himself, so who cares? but, that's an attitude that needs to be changed, throughout the whole industry, regionals to majors, etc.

 

[jetdriven]

like I have said before, we dont work for 30% less than other regionals. Perhaps 10% less, but it is a free market economy. We also have 13 bids per year so the 70 hour guarantee works out to be 75.83 hours per month.

With UAL barely surviving how dare ACA enter talks with trying to raise their fee-per-departure! Almost every single carrier except JBLU and SWA bleeding billions and you think you can go on like nothing ever happened? We all have to share the pain of the current economic conditions. Jesus, you think MESA casued this? How about 9-11 and United losing over TWO BILLION DOLLARS in one quarter!! AMR losing billions. Delta in the red over 200 million a quarter. National...gone. Midway...gone. Who's next?? SWA came so close to having its second unprofitable quarter EVER last year!

That Q1 2001 UAL lost more money than it HAD EVER MADE IN THE PREVIOUS 60+ YEARS OF OEPRATION.

Now we have the 199$ round trip fun-fare flip-flop and sweatpants crowd dictating the fares, and the airlines that dont react to that will be history!!

If we can provide comparable service for a lower cost structure then UAL and others will take a look at us.

 

[SkywayFO]

As a very junior FO at ACA I am on pace to make about 35 grand this year, my first year I might add. That is more than a 1900 captain with Masa, isn't it. Trust my you guys at Masucks are 30% behind. You should have waited. And ACA didn't try to raise the fee per departure. We just wanted the cost adjustment that was in the agreement with UAL.

 

[Mayday911]

The airline industry is cyclical...I knew this downturn was going to happen, even before 9/11. Now how come the Harvard MBAs running these airlines couldn't see it coming. We all messed up, negotiate for the future not the present.

Mayday

 

[metrodriver]

I recently flew to an eastcoast city (dominated by Usair) out of DFW. $360.- rt on ATA, $500 on Continental, $1200 on UA, $1500 on AA and $1700 on USair. I finally took Airtran that charged 240.- one way (didn't feel like making it an 8 hr affair going through Midway) and flew into a different airport. I had to rent a car and drive an hour, but I needed the car anyway. I f I had flown USAir I would have gotten the same bag of pretzels and a drink, probably without the smile.
All these tickets were 4 days in advance, no saterdaynight stay, non refundable.
Do I see a reason here maybe that some carriers are in chapter 11 or close to it? Or that some airlines like ATA, Jetblue, SWA and Airtran are doing well? You can't come with the argument of a one type fleet, ATA has at least 3, not counting it's feeder. The operating cost of the major ones are higher than low cost carriers, but that should equate to maybe 10 or 20 bucks a ticket, not a price tripple that of other airlines

 

[jetdriven]

As a very junior FO at ACA I am on pace to make about 35 grand this year, my first year I might add. That is more than a 1900 captain with Masa, isn't it. Trust my you guys at Masucks are 30% behind. You should have waited. And ACA didn't try to raise the fee per departure. We just wanted the cost adjustment that was in the agreement with UAL.

nice you compare a MESA 1900D pilot with an ACA JET FO. Mesa JET Fo's make about 25 grand the first year and maybe 30 the second. I have a hard time believeing you are making 35+ $ per hour. I am calling BS on this one..

www.airlinepilotcontracts lists ACA as 29.28 per hour as an RJ50 FO. YR 2 is 30.18 and yr 3 is 31.12. MESA is 20.47, 27.42 and 30.59. ACA average for 3 years is 30.19. MESA's average is 26.16.

MESA JET FO's make an average of 87% what an ACA jet FO makes. 13% LESS, NOT 30% LESS.

You have a 75 hour guarantee but we have 13 bids per year so our guarantee is 75.83 per month.

 

[46Driver]

JetDriven,
I am on vacation here in Australia and thus don't have a contract in front of me, but I can tell you that a 3rd year F.O. (CRJ) makes about $36 an hour at ACA - give or take a few cents. The Dornier and J-41 bubbas make about $10 an hour less - but many of us are CRJ seat locked which means although we fly the 328 or the J-41, we receive CRJ pay. Hope this helps out for the info on this thread. I'm out here - its beer time.

 

[exphojump]

Soft pay,

ACA pilots make alot more than the hourly rate when you consider soft pay. A line holder on average makes about 1100 hours pay. If you want to work the system and pick up alot of trips you can make 1200, 1300 or more pay hours per year.

Our standups are rigged at 2 to 1. You show at 2000 fly one leg to a destination spend 5 - 8 hours in a hotel then fly back and are done by 0800. 12 hours duty, 2 - 3 hours flying and 6 pay hours. It is easy to make 90+ hours pay and fly 70 - 80 hours per month as a lineholder, without picking up.

As a poor J41 FO 3 years ago I managed 130 hours pay per month for 6 months working the system and flew only 50 hours per month. I was tired but it supported my family.

ACA is a good company with awesome folks. Hopefully, the UAL deal falls through and we move onto greener pastures.

Enjoy UAL out of ORD, mesa truly deserves it.

 

[CRJ Driver]

like I have said before, we dont work for 30% less than other regionals. Perhaps 10% less, but it is a free market economy. We also have 13 bids per year so the 70 hour guarantee works out to be 75.83 hours per month.

If we can provide comparable service for a lower cost structure then UAL and others will take a look at us.

Dude if you fly 800+ hrs a year tell me how that makes you more money!

Please dont use "comparable service" and mesa in the same sentence.

You guys are getting segment pay right, you'll be working for free if you go to ORD. See yaa in "the box"

 

[jetdriven]

Perhaps you should know we are the #1 operator in terms of reliability of ERJ-145's in the country. Straight from Embraer. ALso our completion factor is in the 96-99% range with not one spare aircraft in the company. Our arrivals within 15 is in the 90% range. ACA I have read is the worst regional in terms of reliability. I dont know firsthand. Thats why UAL is giving us some flying. We are not taking ACA's flying, actually I think ACA is getting more too.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the 800+ hours per year statement. I never said we made more than anyone, I just said we dont have 3rd year FO's making 19K like you all believe.