Boston-Maine Air 727's ??

[bafanguy]

See that Boston-Maine Airways is looking for 727 crews for a Dominican Republic startup. Anyone have details on this operation ? They advertised some time back but no one seemed to know details then...maybe now ?

I see some negative comments in the past re BMA but haven't heard anything about the 727 deal. Thx.

 

[rvsm410]

BM and Pan AM

Just a bit of experience with them....I only know that BM is across the room from the Pan AM Ops and that BM added the 72 to their certificate back around March.....I heard several people had interviews with Pan Am in March and where cancelled the day they were flying up to interview with Pan Am.....

They said the DO tightened the purse strings and they did not know when they were going to interview again.....There was some rumor that the ops were going to combine as the 2 companies are both owned by the same guys, that also own the largest railroads in the northeast...

Thats all I know......I have not heard about the lastest facts you posted on...

Col. Bill

 

[bafanguy]

rv,

Thanks. The post went on planejobs.com yesterday afternoon. Crew base in the Dominican Republic ....mmmmm...sign me up!!!

 

[Lear70]

If it was stable, it'd be pretty cool. I'd be worried about it disappearing when the tourist travel dries up in the fall like it always does, plus RVSM is rumored to be a hard date of Jan 5th 2005 (just 7 months away), and the longer routes would get too expensive to fly in a 727...

That's one of the reasons I just camped out where I'm at now instead of going to one of the 727 ops, stability makes up for the $10,000 less in salary between the two jobs, just be careful about lateral moves if you already have a stable gig.

 

[bafanguy]

Lear70,

I'm gigless...but if RVSM is going to make 727 ops prohibitive shortly and the business is so seasonal , why would a company be starting up right now with that airplane ?

In the past, I've seen a few less-than-complimentary things about BMA on forums, but that's all I know. I was hoping someone would come along with some inside poop on this recent ad for 727 crews.

Thanks.

 

[skootertrash]

They are putting the 727's on the BMA cert to break the union. Anyone who goes there to fly the 72 is a SCAB plain and simple.

 

[bafanguy]

skooter,

oh...well, could you elaborate on that a bit for the benefit of the uninformed ?

Thx.

 

[T-Gates]

The PAA guys are/and have been in negotiations for a new contract. To break the union, Pan Am management went to the FAA and got the 727's put on the Boston-Maine 121 Certificate (Originally just J-31's and Casa's) Then they started shrinking Pan Am and furloughing, while they hired off the street for Boston-Maine. (BMA is not ALPA)

Straight from the Union Breaking Handbook...

Also, I believe one of the upper management figures at Pan Am/BMA is a Pan Am scab from '85.

All of this is second-hand, but I have heard it out there more than once.

 

[bafanguy]

What is the connection between PAA and BMA ? What does one have to do with the other ? Owned by the same people ?

 

[T-Gates]

What is the connection between PAA and BMA ? What does one have to do with the other ? Owned by the same people ?

Yes, Pan Am is the parent company of BMA. So they are just shifting thier whole operation to the non-union side of the shop. Just like Lorenzo did with New York Air and JO did with Freedom.

 

[bafanguy]

Thanks, T...now I get it...

 

[rvsm410]

Makes sense now....

Now I understand what happened to my friend, he was called for an DX interview for PAA in March. Having completed the phone interview, application etc, the interview was 2 weeks away.

So interview day is here, he sets out for the flight to PSM, upon arrival at the airport, he has a message waiting for him and a pilot who was going for an interview as well, it simply said that "all interviews had been cancelled that morning by the DO, no further information at this time" sorry for the trouble.

He said he called and they told him they had a sudden change in budget and did not know when they were going to be hiring, but really needed to hire based on there work load, the DO made a last second decesion to freeze all hiring..That was in March of this year.

Follow-up calls since have been the same, need people but cant hire.

Rumor has it that BMA dispatchers were getting upgrade training on the 72's, but dont know how true that is. But this all kind of makes sense now.

Good luck to you guys at PAA, it sounds like a rough time ahead.

 

[Lear70]

I'm gigless...but if RVSM is going to make 727 ops prohibitive shortly and the business is so seasonal , why would a company be starting up right now with that airplane ?

T got most of the rest of your questions, but to answer your cost questions, the only options out there for aircraft are the 727, 737, or 757, as there aren't really any Airbus or 777 frames sitting idle in the desert.

The 737 is a great airplane, efficient over medium-range distances, good short runway performance, but they start getting high and hot problems during the summer times, and might not be a good southern hemisphere option, plus the frame costs of leasing the aircraft might not be as cost effective as the 727 in terms of passenger count as well.

The 757 is an efficient airplane to operate, but the people who own the leases aren't being very competitive about their pricing, simply because they don't want to put hours and cycles on them unless they'll command a good premium; so they'd rather wait for the economy to improve.

That leaves the 727. Excellent runway performance, even high, hot, and/or heavy. It's simply the best short-haul performing aircraft probably ever created on routes between an hour to two and a half hour stage lengths, lots of crews around who are trained on it, lots of spare parts (most engine rotables are interchangeable between the DC-9, 727, 737-200, etc not to mention other system rotable compatibilities with other Boeing models), simulators are cheap to rent, and the airframes are cheap as h*ll right now. Offsets: fuel, 3rd crewmember, and RVSM.

The people I've talked to tell me that once RVSM is a factor, the cost of extra fuel burn and/or RVSM equipping the aircraft will be almost identical to the cost of leasing the 757. Until then, the 727 still makes a lot more sense in most market niches that aren't filled yet.

Hope that answers the financial end of the equation. As far as BMA's unionization efforts, I'd stay away until they figure out what they're doing. I'd also be careful about using the "Scab" word - until they actually are on strike and the work is considered struck, the people going to work for the alter-ego carrier are NOT scabs. Maybe one level above them, but we need a different word for them. Didn't someone come up with one of those for the Mesa/Freedom Air deal?

 

[bafanguy]

Lear70,

Thanks for the info. I never even HEARD of BMA until I saw their posts for 727 crews so I didn't know about the labor problems. I was a card-carrying, dues-paying ALPA member for over 30 years so I'm not likely to mess with a situation as described re BMA.

Just looking for a place to do a little flying...