Big Sky drops Wyoming

[340drvr]

This is probably not breaking news, just saw it on TV. Big Sky is going to drop their CPR and GCC stops in little old Wyoming. They only had that route for 9 months or so. There's another dozen or more jobs gone. Hopefully the folks on those routes will be able to move over.

 

[crashpad]

Ah, but it is big news. It's Big Sky News!!!
I think we're going to be hearing a lot from them in the future,
especially in the codeshare department.

 

[Cardinal]

Every time I saw Big Sky unload they were even emptier than we were. It ain't hardly possible to operate any 19 seater on EAS money alone. I guess Lakes gets another 2 passengers/day from those cities - another $146,000 in revenue. But the Big Sky guys needn't mourn to hard, they'll probably end up in a big red RJ sooner rather than later.

 

[avrodriver]

soooooooo where are you going with that crashpad?? Do you think they are somehow going to find a way to get more flying under the Northwest Banner or something else. I see them as a pretty prime player in bidding for the work that Mesa will be dropping for F9 come Jan.....then again if they planned on using RJ's they should have a program in the works or at least ready to go concidering the deal they signed with Mesaba when purchased included 50 seat RJ rates. There's so much shi.t going on behind the scenes these days it's unreal. what's your guess?? While we're at it what does everyone think Mesaba has up thier sleeve as far as plans for Big Sky. As much as I'd like to believe the total bullsh.it that continues to come out of Holdings mouth about how they would like to be able to diversify and be able to work for other carriers, I find it hard to believe that NW would drop the puppet strings and allow them to go make money helping another carrier while creating increased competition for the Big Red. Anyone??? AD

 

[JJJ]

I personally don't think that Big Sky will be flying CRJ's any time soon. It is possible though.

I believe that NWA could turn PCL's training into a pt 142? program to qualify Big Sky and provide op specs to use, etc.

The last of the scheduled 95 CRJ's arrives at PCL in Dec of '04 I believe. There are deliveries after that, but no one know, or no one is saying who will be flying them. The longer it takes NWA to announce, the better the chance that PCL will be flying them. But at the same time, as soon as Mesaba gets a contract they could be getting some or all of the deliveries starting in '05... when PCL starts contract negotiations. On the third hand, if the NWA unions approve the use of PCL stock in there pensions, tha might encourage NWA to give more airplanes to PCL.

Either way, I'm sure Mesaba will be getting at least some CRJ's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that NWA has orders for 150 CRJ's, and options for another 150? I can't see PCL flying all of them. Hopefully NWA will keep them at Mesaba and PCL.

As far as Mesaba going out and doing flying for other carriers, you would have to look at the ASA to see what the restriction are on that.

 

[avrodriver]

Sooooo my question is what do you think the plan for Big Sky is. Why did Mesaba buy them, besides a nice little intimidation piece. AD

 

[vc10]

Mesaba can't fly for any carrier other than NW. That's what Big Sky is for.

 

[avrodriver]

Correct. We're coming up on a year now that they've had Big Sky....what have they done with them? As far as I know it is a money losing operation as it stands today. The CoEx prop flying, the United Ex prop flying ( and all the other flying for that matter, although I know it's not over yet), AirTran Jetconnect........they haven't gotten one contract yet. Holdings has a bunch of cash in the bank ( could purchase/finance new airplanes whether DH-8, EMB120, or CRJ), they could focus all of Big Sky's attention on any one carrier if anyone were to bite.....how have they not been able to operate for another carrier yet if that is thier intention. I'm an ex red tail pawn....I've seen how much of a grasp NW has on Mesaba. I just am really curious to know how "supportive" NW would be of Mesaba using Big Sky to feed another carrier. Mesaba is not a Skywest or CHQ.......Mesaba is NW's little bit.ch. They're all in on this together. AD

 

[autothrottle]

Mesaba can fly under any banner they choose to!!!! the only stipulation is that they cannot use the Rj-85...... ( maybe the SF-340) I can't remember... anyway, it is in the service agreement with NW. Ask any MEC officer.

 

[vc10]

Not true. Look at the NW pilot agreement scope clause. It's very clear---Mesaba may fly only for NW.

 

[DoinTime]

Either way, I'm sure Mesaba will be getting at least some CRJ's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that NWA has orders for 150 CRJ's, and options for another 150? I can't see PCL flying all of them. Hopefully NWA will keep them at Mesaba and PCL.

There are 129 firm orders and 175 options to buy for CRJ's at NW. 95 of the firm orders are on commitment to PCL. The NW MEC has veto rights on any new codeshare agreements and about a year ago they passed a MEC resolution to have Mesaba and Pinnacle be the exclusive providers of Airlink brand flying (this may, or may not, hold up through their current negotiations but its nice to know they aren't perfectly willing to sell us out to the lowest bidder). That being said I think its extremely doubtful that BS will be flying any NW CRJ's and that would preclude them from utilizing any PCL training/maintenance facilities.

Personally, I still think that BS is only a bargaining chip and once a deal is agreed upon by XJ pilots they will be allowed to take the path that they were headed on last year.

 

[DoinTime]

Not true. Look at the NW pilot agreement scope clause. It's very clear---Mesaba may fly only for NW.

This is the only passage that pertains to this in the NW pilot contract.

C.9.e. All Regional Jets and AVRO-85 aircraft operated by Mesaba Airlines, Express Airlines,
and any other air carrier in which the Company or an Affiliate has an ownership interest,
must be operated at all times with the NW code designator. If the NW code designator is
removed from a Regional Jet operated by Mesaba Airlines, Express Airlines or another
air carrier in which the Company or an Affiliate has an ownership interest, or from an
AVRO-85 aircraft operated by Mesaba Airlines, that aircraft shall no longer be operated
by the carrier.

It only applies to RJ's and Avro's. The PCL service agreement with NW prohibits us from flying under any other code until 2005 and only then can it be performed by a separate operating certificate under Pinnacle Holdings, Corp.

 

[JJJ]

The NW MEC has veto rights on any new codeshare agreements and about a year ago they passed a MEC resolution to have Mesaba and Pinnacle be the exclusive providers of Airlink brand flying

This is nice to know.