BIG NEWS at AE and AA

[Marko Ramius]

Assuming it's not a bluff, the big question in all of this is what's it worth to AMR to do this? If they consider this it will likely be because they want to see what APA will give up in contract talks for this. DL just reinstated its mechanic raise(eff. March), and if UAL's mechanics secrure at least parity, AMR won't have as much ammo for their pilot contract talks. If APA is willing to play ball in their new contract talks to get these aircraft, things could get real interesting. I don't know anything about Eagle's contract, but is there anything to stop AMR from placing a/c originally slated for Eagle on AA property? If not, and AMR is willing to talk about this idea, Eagle ALPA risks a lot by not being a party to those talks. APA and ALPA are different unions, so as I understand it all of the brotherhood & representational claims that the RJDC asserts do not even apply here. Look no further than the way the AA/TWA integration has been handled. The way I see it, as long as the flow is still recognized, APA could technically just negotiate a deal with AMR and let ALPA here what their "decision" was when it was over (my assumption here is that nothing in this deal renders the Eagle contract ammendable.) So while I certainly understand the skepticism of the Eagle pilot group, if I were a pilot there and AMR even thought about working with APA on this, I would want my MEC in the heart of those talks. The big question in any talks is what leverage does Eagle have other than offering to do the flying for cheaper, and that would be somewhat of an empty victory considering the length of their current contract and the other regional payrates out there. Again, I understand the skepticism, but if AMR decides to talk, it could be very dangerous to tell APA to pound sand.

 

[RJFlyer]

if I were a pilot there and AMR even thought about working with APA on this, I would want my MEC in the heart of those talks

Kinda sounds like what the RJDC has been trying to accomplish with ASA/CMR/DL

 

[Airline Pilot27]

We will probably find out what will become of these proposals sometime in March. AMR will wait until the last minute before it makes such a change to the status quo. This is when Eagle will hit the ASM restriction. In the meantime Trans Mistakes and **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**aqua (no offense to their pilots) will continue to reduce the amount of flying Eagle is allowed as we have pilots on furlough with possibly more to come. Some factors that may affect this will be:
-Our Scope Grievence with the "connection carriers" will be ruled on before then
-AMR beancounters weigh the gains/losses of a truly single carrier
-Whether our MEC will be allowed into any of these meetings.
Eagle pilots have given up way too much. I would sure hate to wip out that almost empty jar of KY out.

 

[MartinFierro]

Personally, I'm inclined to think that this APA proposal has no chance of being enacted (thank god). Look at it from Ain't My Responsability's viewpoint: they have nothing to gain by accepting it, and a lot to lose. Does AMR gain anything by having AA pilots fly RJs? No, not at all. Do they have potentially a lot to lose? Heck yeah: headaches with Eagle, potentially having to pay mainline salaries on the RJ. Do they care about an integrated list? Hardly, in fact they probably don't want to see one so that they can continue to pit AA pilots against AE pilots.

If they reject it, they may have to furlough more Eagle pilots. Obviously, as AMR already is responsable for our rapidly approaching the ASM cap (by outsourcing flying to TSA and CHQ), they aren't centrally concernced about furloughs as much as the bottom line. That's my take on it anyway.

BTW, I'm also inclined to think that the company statement regarding Eagle approaching the ASM cap is more of a scare tactic to gain concessions from Eagle and APA to give them leverage going into the upcoming arbitration about SCOPE violations. Think of this: if AMR were to be able to get APA to agree not to limit Eagle ASM, then Eagle has a lot less leverage in the case against TSA/CHQ. If there is no ASM cap, then American Connection is not as clearly taking jobs away from Eagle. At least an impartial party would possibly be inclined to see it this way. Whereas with an ASM cap, Am. Connection clearly is keeping Eagle pilots on the street.

If the company really thought that they were going to have to furlough more people as early as April, would they actually recall 28 pilots, and plan to recall more in March, like they are doing?????

What do you all think about this? Meanwhile, I'm just hoping for no more furloughs and a lot more recalls!

 

[alek]

Eagle Flying

Always remember before AMR goes, public they already made decision.
They are the Company that works behind the closed doors. Just look at the TWA purchase. Personally, I think decision about RJ flying is already made. Eagle will fly RJs, and there will be no more furloughs from Eagle side, only TWA. APA will be against that but what is their choice. If they slow down again, AMR proved that they will lose in court should we say (45 Mil fine that APA has to pay) and AMR Management has GOOD FRIENDS in Washington so there will be no strike.
I think Eagle guys should not be afraid of anything because AMR has to grow Eagle to compete. Just look at the DAL stock. Only reason it is one of the highest ones, is because of ASA, ACA, Comair, Skywest.
As far as American Connection (TSA, Chitaqua..) those days are over. American is already trying to find Airplanes to replace American Connection. Just look at the the History of American, you buy Commuter or you cancel the Contract.
So everybody should relax , there will be no change in RJ flying. APA/TWA pilots are expensive to fly them.
Eagle guys good luck, and enjoy growth for 2-3 years.

ALSO,I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE, WHY WOULD YOU CALL PILOTS BACK IF YOU ARE GOING TO FURLOUGH SOON!

AMR had to aks APA first because looks good in the Media, and also when they go to court over RJ flying. They will say WE ASKED THEM FIRST.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND LETS HOPE FOR THE BETTER TIMES IN THE FUTURE.

 

[80drvr]

Re: Eagle Flying

Always remember before AMR goes, public they already made decision.
They are the Company that works behind the closed doors. Just look at the TWA purchase. Personally, I think decision about RJ flying is already made. Eagle will fly RJs, and there will be no more furloughs from Eagle side, only TWA. APA will be against that but what is their choice. If they slow down again, AMR proved that they will lose in court should we say (45 Mil fine that APA has to pay) and AMR Management has GOOD FRIENDS in Washington so there will be no strike.
I think Eagle guys should not be afraid of anything because AMR has to grow Eagle to compete. Just look at the DAL stock. Only reason it is one of the highest ones, is because of ASA, ACA, Comair, Skywest.
As far as American Connection (TSA, Chitaqua..) those days are over. American is already trying to find Airplanes to replace American Connection. Just look at the the History of American, you buy Commuter or you cancel the Contract.
So everybody should relax , there will be no change in RJ flying. APA/TWA pilots are expensive to fly them.
Eagle guys good luck, and enjoy growth for 2-3 years.

ALSO,I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE, WHY WOULD YOU CALL PILOTS BACK IF YOU ARE GOING TO FURLOUGH SOON!

AMR had to aks APA first because looks good in the Media, and also when they go to court over RJ flying. They will say WE ASKED THEM FIRST.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND LETS HOPE FOR THE BETTER TIMES IN THE FUTURE.

Alek,

You're statements are somewhat incorrect in regard to the scope issues as well as the RLA act.

Here are some facts:

-Eagle operates under an exception to the scope clause in the AA/APA CBA. I'll send the relevent portions of the contract to you if you'd like them.

-Eagle is up against its contractual ASM limit. While they would like to grow Eagle, they can't. Don Carty publicly aknowledges this and says he will abide by the contract. Every CRJ delivery will trigger the retirement of two turbo-props. You do the math....will that create a need for additional pilots?

-The company already pushed a TA which transferred the CRJ to AA. It was rejected by APA for a number of reasons but the CRJ element was not one of them. So, management has already shown their hand on the CRJ issue.

-If the company chose to openly violate the contract, it would be resolved through an expedited arbitration process. I'm not sure that "asking" APA if they could violate the contract as you suggest will be a legally sound defense. This one is black and white. No need for a slowdown. Also, the 45 mil fine is resolved and Judge Kendall has stepped down and moved to private practice.

-Contrary to your statement, DAL stock is not valued any higher than AMR's. AMR has 16 buy recommendations vs. 13 for DAL. AMR FY02 EPS estimate is 3.14 with a P/E of 7.92 while DAL's is negative 2.42 per share. DAL's market capitalization is 3.6 billion vs. 3.8 billion for AMR.

My Opinion:

-everyone on both lists will ultimately be better off if Eagle operates as part of the APA contract instead of an exception to the APA contract. That doesn't mean their will not be short term negative consequences to some at both airlines if this comes to fruition.

regards,

former Eagle APA pilot (who would have preferred flying the Saab with an AA number while getting contributions to A and B funds even if the pay stayed the same).

 

[lazy8s]

a little ahead of yourself.....

Alek,

You said :
"As far as American Connection (TSA, Chitaqua..) those days are over. American is already trying to find Airplanes to replace American Connection. Just look at the the History of American, you buy Commuter or you cancel the Contract.


A few points:

#1: It's Chautauqua not Chitaqua
#2: until you have personally viewed these AA Connection contracts, you don't know that they are cancelling the contract.

BTW: Eagle was given the option for STL flying and at the time, they didn't have the resources or ability to take over those routes when needed. Not until 9/11 happened and the furloughs came, did Eagle start expressing concern over the STL routes.
Day late and a dollar short.


Fly safe,

Lazy8's

 

[MartinFierro]

BTW: Eagle was given the option for STL flying and at the time, they didn't have the resources or ability to take over those routes when needed. Not until 9/11 happened and the furloughs came, did Eagle start expressing concern over the STL routes.
Day late and a dollar short.

Actually, this is not true. Our union at Eagle was fighting the TSA/CHQ flying long before 9/11. Some people may have noticed Eagle pilots with "AMR say no to alter ego carriers" stickers on their flight bags. These, which were put out long before 9/11, are just a small piece of evidence that Eagle pilots were fighting American Connection long before.

The only difference is that now it is even more important for Eagle pilots. As for Eagle being given the option to do STL flying....that was not the case.