Beware to any APL pilot thinking of coming over to Mid Atlantic

[Steve 737]

Beware to any APL pilot thinking of coming over to Mid Atlantic. The company has inserted into their latest proposal with ALPA a training contract for the Embraer 170 with NO $ dollar amount shown !!! You are commited to MAA for TWO YEARS and if you leave prior to that you owe the company the money or you lose your seniority number and recall rights back to mainline. How much is the training contract ? Could be 10, 20 , or even $30,000. It's a BAD deal. Think twice before coming over to MAA !

 

[mar]

Editted for misundertanding

Sorry.

 

[njcapt]

Beware to any APL pilot thinking of coming over to Mid Atlantic. The company has inserted into their latest proposal with ALPA a training contract for the Embraer 170 with NO $ dollar amount shown !!! You are commited to MAA for TWO YEARS and if you leave prior to that you owe the company the money or you lose your seniority number and recall rights back to mainline. How much is the training contract ? Could be 10, 20 , or even $30,000. It's a BAD deal. Think twice before coming over to MAA !

A contract with no dollar amount listed? Doesn't meet the minimum standard for a legal contract from what I remember from my college business law class. Sounds like indentured servitude to me.

You aren't by chance a junior ALG/PDT trying to cull the herd, are you?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Doubtful it would hold up in court.


Picture it:

Big company suing poor worker who is simply trying to better his career, and by writing iself a blank check out of the worker's pocket?

I just can't see it sticking.

JMHO

 

[dlredline]

A contract with no dollar amount listed? Doesn't meet the minimum standard for a legal contract from what I remember from my college business law class. Sounds like indentured servitude to me.

You aren't by chance a junior ALG/PDT trying to cull the herd, are you?

I've read the language and this is all true. Page 23 of the Company proposal states that a MAA pilot who leaves (either voluntarily or discharged) within 24 months of line qualification must pay the company "$[insert cost of training]", reducable by 50% after 18 months of service. However, there's a catch. It goes on to state that a pilot who doesn't repay within 30 days of resignation/termination loses his/her seniority recall rights. And the contract says the pilot "will" pay the training cost if he/she leaves. My take on the language says you are bound for the 2 years and will pay a yet to be disclosed amount if you leave within 2 years, and also pay with your recall rights. And even if you don't care about recall and want to just go get the type and then leave, you're still liable for the training cost.

This is a basic indictment of the MEC and NC and their abuse of the furloughed/MAA pilots. It is absurd that you would negotiate language so vague, but typical since it "hoses" the unrepresented MAA group and not the mainline pilots.

Unbelievable!

Red

 

[Steve 737]

No ..... I'm a 14 year USAir mainline furloughee who finds himself in the middle of yet another hose job by U management and ALPA. Just trying to give my fellow APL'ers a heads up on whats going on over here.

A contract with no dollar amount listed? Doesn't meet the minimum standard for a legal contract from what I remember from my college business law class. Sounds like indentured servitude to me.

You aren't by chance a junior ALG/PDT trying to cull the herd, are you?

 

[Heavy Set]

A contract with no dollar amount listed? Doesn't meet the minimum standard for a legal contract from what I remember from my college business law class. Sounds like indentured servitude to me.

You aren't by chance a junior ALG/PDT trying to cull the herd, are you?

Did you look at his experience? Do they fly MD80s and 737s at ALG/PDT? Give the dude a break and lighten up....

 

[njcapt]

Did you look at his experience? Do they fly MD80s and 737s at ALG/PDT? Give the dude a break and lighten up....

Jeez, I was JOKING. You're the one who needs to lighten up.

By the way, with all the churning in the industry in the past couple of years, there are plenty of ex-jet jocks flying for regionals - including pilots from US Airways, United, TWA, and Northwest. He11, I was a Captain on both the 737 and MD-80, and I may be knocking on the regionals' doors soon. You need to get a little perspective.

 

[reepicheep]

Welcome to the "new corporate culture" we're coming to love so much here at Airways.

 

[typhoonpilot]

This might be stating the obvious but it looks like U management are trying to stem the possible exodus to jetBlue. I guess this doesn't apply to those already at MAA.

I don't think the recall rights is that big a deal though. It's not like U is going to be around in a few months time anyway. Take the type rating and go to jetBlue if you can then let U try to sue you after they have liquidated.

Typhoonpilot

P.S. We're gettting 30 more 777s over the next three years so come get a decent job in the desert. www.emiratesgroupcareers.com

 

[dlredline]

This might be stating the obvious but it looks like U management are trying to stem the possible exodus to jetBlue. I guess this doesn't apply to those already at MAA.

TP,

I'd agree. But I question the legality of this "training contact". MAA pilots currently can not vote on the current LOA 93 (the TA) being negotiated by the USAirways MEC. They aren't part of mainline (even tough it's part of the same certificate). Thus, they aren't represented in this "agreement". Can they be bound by a "negotiated" agreenment they have no say over? And can such a training contract be made retro-active to those already at MAA or scheduled for class? I'm sure lots of MAA pilots, or those considering, would like to know the risks before making their decision to go to MAA.

Red

 

[PHXFLYR]

Had a friend of mine interview early-1980's (ahhh....the good ol' days!! ) with both United and Eastern Airlines pretty much at the same time. 3 phase interview process, both airlines ,with ol' Davey jumpin' thru the hoops at both airlines without so much as breakin' a sweat. Anyway, he successfull completes the interview process at both airlines hoping to get the nod from United. Turns out he gets one from Eastern instead. Off he goes to ground school where on the first day of indoc they have everyone sign a "training agreement" stating that should they leave Eastern within a certain period of time, they we're to reimburse the company $10,000 to cover their training costs. ( there was quite a lot of hiring going on bback then) So Davey signs along with the rest of the class(like they really had a choice) and who do you think calls him shortly after he checks out but United with an offer. So he resigns and off he goes to DEN. Several weeks later Eastern sends him the bill for training costs. Davey shrud New Yorker that he is finds him self a lawyer,it all somehow lands up in court with the lawyer saying that these training contracts we're signed under duress,ie if you didn't sign , you would be asked to resign your position. Judge agrees and my friend did n't pay one thin dime. Perhaps the MAA guys if this thing gets voted in can find similar redress in the courts.


PHXFLYR

 

[4lowed]

DLRedline,

The MAA pilots are currently represented by the PIT and PHL ALPA LEC's. They do have voting rights. I voted no on LOA 91 and I hope my fellow pilots at MAA will join me in voting no to LOA 93. Hopefully soon we will all vote Dwayne and his Woerthless union off of the property of this dying has been. I can't wait to take my ERJ170 type rating to B6. I hope the money they need to recoup on my training is one more nail in the Airways coffin.

4lowed

 

[dlredline]

DLRedline,

The MAA pilots are currently represented by the PIT and PHL ALPA LEC's. They do have voting rights. I voted no on LOA 91 and I hope my fellow pilots at MAA will join me in voting no to LOA 93. Hopefully soon we will all vote Dwayne and his Woerthless union off of the property of this dying has been. I can't wait to take my ERJ170 type rating to B6. I hope the money they need to recoup on my training is one more nail in the Airways coffin.

4lowed

4lowed,

Thanks for setting the record straight. I'm glad that MAA pilots have at least some input in the process. Unfortunately, the other J4J pilots stuck in Mesa/PSA/et al pergatory don't enjoy the same benefit. I hope that new 170 type pays benefits for you real soon.

And I, too, hope LOA 93 is voted down. Enough is enough.

Red