Better on Resume-121 or 135?

[RegionalWannabe]

My goal is to fly for Horizon Air, but I do not meet their competitive mins. Until Horizon starts hiring regularily would it help to get part 121 SIC time in a DHC-8, or 135 charter PIC time in light twins and possibly some time in a King Air? Lets just say total time after a year or two would approx be the same...
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Thanksgiving

 

[pilotyip]

PIC every time

Anyone can be a SIC, you do not start being a true pilot until you start logging PIC, two engine PIC is better than one engine PIC
two pilot PIC is better than one pilot PIC, and two engine two pilot turbine PIC at a 135 carrier is worth more on your resume than 10 years of 121 SIC. USA Jet has a new hire class starting as DA-20 F/O's in the on-demand cargo business. Average Time 4000TT, 2500 MEL, 1000 PIC all have some tubine time, three have turbine PIC. Backgrounds 1 - 135 charter CE-550, 1- US Army C-12 driver, 1 DA-20 F/O from 135 on-demand, 1- Part 121 lay offs, DHC-8 driver and 2 USAF pilots one C-9 and one C-27. Competitive mins in the airline business are very high right now for entry level job. Try the 135 route. you may have to move to find it. you may get hired as a 121 SIC, but as shown above times are very competitive

 

[F-eagle]

If you want to fly for Horizon, I would have to say 121 time would be much better then light twin PIC. Show them you can work in an airline atmosphere, you can deal with PAX's, Flight Attendants, and crusty Captains. If I was doing the hiring at any airline, I would look for people with a proven track record, which means previous airline experience.

 

[another cfii]

Horizon has been hiring very sporadically. You need to have internal reference, the more the merrier. Good news is they like CFIs, bad news is they need tons of ME (>600 hrs) from CFIs. If you have neither, you may want to try to get on any smaller regional airlines (part 121), so that you can get some turbine experience, as they can be very useful later in your aviation career, no matter a freight dog or a RJ driver. Hopefully next year there will be more hiring instead of furlough. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[SpocksBeard]

All I know is that once I got my first 121 checkride done and about a hundred hours in under 121 I got calls from Comair and Air Wisconsin within a month of sending in my resume (and no internal reccomendations either).

 

[CF34-3B1]

I can't say what Horizon likes, but I know ASA likes previous 121 time. We've hired lots of Saab/Dash/EMB FOs here. (Including a few from Horizon)

 

[sewerpiper]

Not to be a thread stealer in here, but I have a very close question that would fit in here nicely.

My company wants to type me in a metro, be single pilot. I also have a very good chance at pinnacle (lots on inside people). Of course the metro job pays more, but which will get me my fedex or UPS job in the future? I'm leaning towards pinnacle, but I'm gonna be pissed if 2 years down the road I realized I messed up a good thing.

 

[WrightAvia]

Oh really? Well sh*t I should stop logging time I guess since I'm not a real pilot. Maybe I don't even deserve to be paid?

I know where you are coming from youngblood, but there are two sides to this coin. On one hand, you... as a 121 SIC, are a trusted part of the crew and you have been trained to your airline's standards. You are a "captain" in training. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other side of this coin... we had one of those furloughed "Ab Initio" guys from American Eagle flying jumpers for us, right after Eagle did their big furlough. He had 800 TT, of which almost all was SIC. He got the job at Eagle, right out of 141 training. He had no real PIC time to speak of. This guy scared the B'Jeesus out of me and I chose to ride up with our other pilot, every chance I could. Our other pilot only had 500 or 600 hours and had been doing some glider tow flying and jump flying, before he came to us. He didn't even have an instrument rating or any CFI ratings. He never made me feel uncomfortable as a passenger. (I will give the ab initio guy credit, he was a hell of a lot better, by the end of summer...but still a little hinky)

To answer the original posters question...I think for the job hunter looking for a flight officer position at the regional level, either PIC 135 or SIC 121, are good backgrounds to have in your log books. If you have BOTH, how could you go wrong. A good mix should put you in the best light. However, I think it is sad that a person should have to take a SIC 121 job at the regional level, to get experience to take a better SIC 121 job, at the regional level.

 

[Thedude]

Sewerpiper, dont think that flying for the feeders will get you a job fly for the big freight doggies. Flying the tube single pilot will build you skills and you will be very good for a little while after it, and a little more respect from those that know what a Metro is. Belive me I used to fly the tube single-pilot several years ago. The big ticket now is 121 jet time. I wished I would have known that a few years ago before I started to amass T'prop time.

 

[PTinbound]

Sewerpiper, I gotta say to stay and get the Metro PIC time.
Fedex I believe requires 1000 Turbine PIC. Perhaps you could bag 1000 PIC and THEN go to a good regional if you couldn't get on with the majors, but I have a hunch Pinnacle is going to be a VERY long wait to upgrade, if ever.

Those of us in the NWA family know the pain when it is time to go through contract negotiations, which Pinnacle will start soon. The Mesaba folk know it, as do the senior Pinnacle pilots who have been around since '97. Good luck.

 

[sf340flyer]

Here is how I see the value of Time:
1. 121 PIC Jet
2. 121 PIC Turbo-Prop >20,000 LBS
3. 121 PIC Turbo-Prop <20,000 LBS
4. 135 PIC Jet
5. 135 PIC Turbo-Prop req. a type
6. 135 PIC non type Turbo-Prop
7. 91 PIC Jet (corporate)
8. 91 PIC Turbo-Prop (corporate)
9. 121 SIC Jet
10. 121 SIC Turbo-Prop
11. 135 SIC Jet/turbo-Prop
12. 91 SIC Jet/Turbo-Prop
13. 135 recip time
14. MEII time
15. 91 Recip PIC
16. other

This is all veries on what you want to do. This list is for Major 121 carriers (includeing JB for the 20000 req.). Most majors require 750/1000 of PIC Turbine for application, which doesn't mean what competive mins are. I thnk the list with 1. time is growing fast, and that is what you need to be competitive in a couple of years when Fedex/UPS start hiring. Bottom line this industry is all about who you know.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Here is how I see the value of Time:
1. 121 PIC Jet
2. 121 PIC Turbo-Prop >20,000 LBS
3. 121 PIC Turbo-Prop <20,000 LBS
4. 135 PIC Jet
5. 135 PIC Turbo-Prop req. a type
6. 135 PIC non type Turbo-Prop
7. 91 PIC Jet (corporate)
8. 91 PIC Turbo-Prop (corporate)
9. 121 SIC Jet
10. 121 SIC Turbo-Prop
11. 135 SIC Jet/turbo-Prop
12. 91 SIC Jet/Turbo-Prop
13. 135 recip time
14. MEII time
15. 91 Recip PIC
16. other

This looks like a pretty accurate list to me. Flight time isn't the whole story though once you meet the minimums. Most places are looking for good pilots that will fit in and behave professionally. You can't really demonstrate that until you get to the interview. The trick is trying to figure out who they are calling in and why. This could be as simple as your resume meeting minimums and being on the desk at the time they decide to make calls.

 

[pilotyip]

Further Info

Yes SIC's are real pilots, they have pilot certificates, they log flight time, they fly airplanes, they suggest things to Capts, but their flight timne only has value with their present company. If you have no meaningful PIC time, it may be tuff to get your next job. Get the 1000 turbine PIC, before you go the SIC route, unless you are staying with same company and plan to upgrade. Great example is friend of mine, Ex USAirways, 45 years old 11,000 hours, 9,000 ME Turbo Jet SIC, 500 MEL PIC, no turbine PIC, He does have the minimum requriements for most of the airlines that are hiring.

 

[350DRIVER]

The real test does come when you take the upgrade ride and when you are put to the test (135). I have met so many first officers that have slipped through the cracks it is not even funny during my 135 stint. I sat in the back for one of the upgrade rides and I will never ever do that again, scared the living sheit out of me... I think it is less less likely that this activity occurs in the 121 world.

Yip is is involved strictly in a 135 world so I tend to agree with those comments for the most part since they pretty much are based on 135 operations.

Wright has also made some great points. With the type of flying he does I am almost sure he would be a welcomed crew member at any given place.


3 5 0

 

[pilotyip]

YIP works for a 121 air carrier

YIP is totally involved in 121 ops, even though we operate 135 airplanes, all training, checking, maint and release is done to 121 standards. It shows in our perfromance record.

 

[corpflunkie]

With regards to 135 vs. 121 time, does the type of aircraft flown come into play? For example, I just got hired to fly night freight, single pilot in a MU2. I plan on doing that for a couple of years to build the 1000 hours + PIC turbine

 

[Flyingdude]

Part 135 PIC Turbine

I don't know that the 135 or 121 is so important, or even the above list for that matter. I have 300 hrs. PIC Turbine, 1400 multi, 1200 Part 135 all of it PIC. I have been sending resumes to all the regionals that are hiring(TSA, Chautauqu, Pinnacle, Comair) for a year and heard nothing from any of them. I have no LOR's and that is the problem, I don't know anyone at the companys that are hiring. Knowing someone is the sole most important thing and I am proof of that. I have very competitive times and yet many with not even half my time are getting interviews because the know the right person, not because the are more qualified. I am not in any way taking anything away from anybody getting a job, especially in todays market. It is just living proof that the flight time and type is not the main factor, it is more who you know. Just my two cents.