beards, goatees, and the like...

[wingnutt]

ok,

talking to some pilots the other day, and we stumbled into this subject as one of the fellows has a full goatee. now ive known the guy for about 8 years, and have never known him to not have it, so its not a spur of the moment fad. as a matter of fact, hes had it in all of his instructing/ferrying/cargo/ambulance flight jobs and has yet to become an issue, but it has been mentioned.

what brought this to light is the regionals that are ramping up to hire, of which hed like to be part of, and the other pilot mentioned to him that hed better shave that thing off if he dosent want to get chased out the door when he goes to the interview. this was quite disconcerting to him, as even his own wife has never seen him without it, and hes wanting to know if this is in fact the case...to the point that hes thinking that perhaps the regionals arent for him if they are going to force him to remove it.

so what does your flight department think of facial hair, or more importantly, the goatee? i do know that there are a few places that the standards are relaxing a bit in recent years, but these are all "lower tier" jobs, and not something one would want to make a career out of.

...thoughts?

 

[Beechnut]

Our regional airlines says you can't have facial hair below the corner of your mouth. A mustache is okay, but a beard or the like is no go. I can only think of seeing 2 guys (of 800, not that I have seen them all) having mustaches.

S.

 

[Deftone45075]

Give him the AC about beards and oxygen masks, then let him argue it out with the interview board at an airline.

It had been my understanding that most companies operating aircraft that have an O2 system with masks will require you to be clean shaved.

That is the case in my company. mustache = yes, beards = no.

 

[njcapt]

Hawaiian use to allow goats, but I don't know about these days. I wouldn't want to show up at an interview with one, though. Make sure he gets rid of it at least several weeks before any interview. I shaved off the mustache I'd had for 14 years just before my United interview back in 95, and probably didnt get the job because of my big, soft, stunningly white upper lip... and the fact I was a civilian white male with lots of airline experience.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[wingnutt]

is that the reasoning for the no facial hair clause, the O2 mask??? its not like its a military chem mask that must keep outside air from infiltrating the seal.

strange...

Give him the AC about beards and oxygen masks

...would anyone have the AC number handy?

 

[pilotyip]

The Industry Norm

The norm in the industry is no facial hair except a mustache, not extending below the corner of the mouth. When you show up with a goatee or muttin chops, fu man chu, etc. you are sending a signal "I dance to the tune of a different drummer" That is scary to any employer where you might have contact with the public. We want little robots in our cockpits, everyone doing it the same way. I had I guy we hired show up for ground school with bread, I told him he would not be working for us if the bread was not gone by 0800, I gave him my shaving kit and showed him to the bathroom, he cleaned up real nice. BTW I did not shave off my mustache when I interviewed at UAL in 1996, I obviously did not get hired either, they found a 38 hour error in my 10,000 hour log books.

 

[bobbysamd]

The Industry Norm

When you show up with a goatee or muttin chops, fu man chu, etc. you are sending a signal "I dance to the tune of a different drummer" That is scary to any employer where you might have contact with the public. We want little robots in our cockpits, everyone doing it the same way.

. . . . which is really the long and short (sorry) of facial hair. O2 mask contact is not a bad reason at all, but borders on being a red herring.

I did not shave off my mustache when I interviewed at UAL in 1996, I obviously did not get hired either, they found a 38 hour error in my 10,000 hour log books.

They always create, conjure up or otherwise come up with a reason and/or excuse not to hire you and do the same to rationalize it. Don't give them any help.

 

[AA717driver]

The O2 mask issue is real. If you don't get a tight seal(which a beard will prevent) you can't keep the smoke out.

Re: UAL and the logbook issue. A friend of mine interviewed in the summer of '97. Ex-USMC C-130 AC, TWA 767 FO and they were almost jumping out of their chairs over a small logbook discrepency. What a bunch of f***sticks!

Maybe they should have held their CEO applicant's to the same high standard... TC

 

[Dieterly]

The O2 mask issue is real

Only for US Airlines.

 

[bart]

I would say decide which is more important.

The job or the beard.

People tend to hire people like them. When was the last time you faced a board full of captains with beards?

 

[starvingcfi]

hey pilotyip...

did he shave all his bread?...or just the crusts? d*mn crusts ruining my sammiches.

 

[Flying Illini]

mustache=OK
Nothing else.

 

[FN FAL]

hey pilotyip...

did he shave all his bread?...or just the crusts? d*mn crusts ruining my sammiches.

I hope after he loaned the guy that razor, he threw out that blade and put a new one on. I'd hate to see him get a yeast infection.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Lixdexia!

Don't panic! I have seen this before.

I had I guy we hired show up for ground school with bread, I told him he would not be working for us if the bread was not gone by 0800, I gave him my shaving kit and showed him to the bathroom, he cleaned up real nice.

At first I thought he didn't like the bread the I guy brought, as I would of gladly ate any bread some one brought me. So, I guess he did not want to break bread with the I guy or the bread was really bad. But he (pilotyip) gave him his shaving kit and the I guy took a shower and "cleaned up real nice". OK, that was a just a bit out there for me, but I am sure pilotyip liked it. Just goes to show you that any act of kindness can go a long way.
Bread or Beard, who cares? P.S. Who is I guy? I won't tell anyone, promise!

 

[FN FAL]

But the truely sad part of this story is the fact that If he wouldn't have gotten rid of his bread, his ass was going to be TOAST!

 

[cheater1239]

for some aviators it's a medical condition, and well groomed facial hair is therefore allowed. a few U.S. airlines have allowed them in the past; i don't know current policy at ATA, but i recall seeing a 727 capt. with a very full beard. european carriers are perhaps a bit more lax, several pilots sport facial hair.

 

[Dash8]

it's mostly a rediculous image issue, the airlines are uptight about how people look, hence the hats and the whole shebang, the o2 mask reasonings are just a red herring, because most goatees (like the one i used to have) were smaller than the outline of the o2 mask (so therefore no seal issue)
I've also heard the 'well when pure o2 hits it it could burst into flames from your skin oils' argument
yeah that would be true if you washed your face less than once a week or two, but anyone with any kind of personal hygene wouldn't have an issue with that

so once again it's just a bias/outdated image issue, like people with beards can't be professionals

too many people WAAY to hung up on image, i don't come out of the pit much, don't care to deal with the meat in back,
so they rarely see me which suits me just fine

 

[Iceman21]

...would anyone have the AC number handy?

AC 120-43 The Influence of Beards on Oxygen Mask Efficiency

There you go.

 

[Purple Haze]

If you don't get a tight seal(which a beard will prevent) you can't keep the smoke out.

I'm not sure that using 100% oxygen and positive pressure breathing (emergency setting on the regulator), you can't keep the smoke out. I think the rule exists to keep pilots from looking like mechanics. The desired image is "professional."

 

[pilotyip]

Problem?

spell check says bread is a correct spelling?, anyone got content check?