Banner Towing?

[Beetle007]

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Hope all are doing well. I'm a recently laid off pilot and would like the inside scoop on banner towing? What are the pro's and Con's. How much should the endorsement cost? The place I am looking at charges $2500 for the entire package and say work is available after completing the endorsement. If anyone out there has had bad or good experiences let me know

Cheers,

 

[Please Hire Me]

$2500 =rip off

 

[Please Hire Me]

I guess I should elaborate on my answer a little bit. I was considering spending $2k on a banner towing job down south but decided against it. Hang in there and look for something better. I did, and now I'm starting a job in May (CFI and banner towing) and I don't have to pay a dime to get trained to tow. I don't even have to pay for my tailwheel endsorsement.

BTW- You're gonna hear some people go off soon on PFT, so heads up!

 

[LearAv8r]

do a search on this topic in these forums.....there has been much information on this topic recently discussed.


LearAv8r-

 

[turning2]

If it is Tim Pacini at Aerial Messages in Daytona Beach stay as far away as possible. Numerous horror stories, both witnessed (didn't fly for him, but flew at the same airport) and heard (roomed with some of his pilots).

 

[LR25]

I have about 800 hrs of banner flying, and loved every minute of it.

I even did it while I was flying full time at my other job just for fun and a little extra cash.

And like I have always said, its as safe as you make.

I started flying banners a while back, so I really dont know much about the "training costs" that are involved now.

There is nothing really hard about the training, you just have to be able to handle the airplane well and be able to adapt to a different kind of flying.

The money that I have heard people talk of on the board seems way too much.

You shouldnt burn more than a tank full on the airplane and not fly more than that to learn, you either can do it, or not.

Like the previous post suggested, there are alot of threads to research on that subject, dont get screwed, but most of all, dont get involved with an unsafe operation. I know of a few people in this line of work that are not here any more becuase of lousy maintenance. You have hardly any options at the top of a pick-up when the engine fails or hickups.

I have a few stories to tell that made my eyes open wide, and I always tried to leave myself an out.

Remember, as safe as YOU make it.

PM me if you want any particulars or info on operators I know.

Good luck

 

[bobbysamd]

U-pay-4 tow training

First off, what kind of job did you get at 240 hours? I don't see any CFI certificates in your profile, so I gather that it was non-instructing.

This is one of my favorites cases-in-point. Soooo many low-timers don't want to instruct and are looking for jobs. And, face it, there aren't too many non-instructing jobs available for 250-hours pilots. Soooooooo, they consider something like this.

I am not criticizing banner towing in and of itself by any means. I am criticizing the notion of paying for the training when job prospects post-training are dubious. In other words, how do you know for sure that you will have work after you train (and can earn back the bucks you shelled out for the training)? How do you know that it is not a ripoff?

I am not calling this P-F-T, because it is not P-F-T per se. You can apply the endorsement and tailwheel signoff to other flying. I don't have any problem with any training that you can shop around. Something is P-F-T if the training applies only to the specific company that is selling it and cannot be applied to other flying or companies.

Do yourself a favor. Take the money you planned to spend for the tow training and apply it to a CFI. You'll find work much sooner and the experience will pay you dividends in the long run.

 

[skywing]

Aerial messages

I fell for that stupid deal. $2500 and you get a babber tow endorsement. after reading everyones elses complaint and the NTSB report on thir accident that killed 2 pilots i endend up not going. He wont return your money and he seems to have no morals.

I just hope the FAA takes a hard look at this guy. i have read maney complaints on this guy. there is even one on rippoff report.com Ive printed 20 pages of complaints on this guy and there are many more. Like everyone says stay away. I would erge you to go to the NTSB site and read the report for yourself. Im sure it will change your mind about this outfit. it is sad that there are companies like that. it just makes it harder for the honest air operators. on top of it he dosent even garentee you a job.


someone should stop this guy!!!

There is a guy in New Jersy advertising banner tow endorsemnt for $1500

 

[JJay]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020318X00353&key=1

 

[WrightAvia]

after reading everyones elses complaint and the NTSB report on thir accident that killed 2 pilots i endend up not going.

So what are you going to do, hide in your closet till they design airplanes without ailerons? There's a lot of 135 crashes and 121 crashes also, in fact a recent crash of a Beech 1900 in CLT comes to mind. But you'd jump right in one of those at the drop of a hat, wouldn't you?

I'd be afraid, very afraid.

 

[labbats]

After reading all the above posts, I have no idea where WrightAvia is coming from. What's wrong with you man?

 

[WrightAvia]

You know what labbats. What I see is a bunch of people whining about their foibles in PFT. I see whining about an "alleged" aircraft control problem possibly caused by who knows what, since the NTSB report is still preliminary. I see whining about recieving training and not getting a promised job (dang don't you people read your contracts. Contracts? We don't need no stinking contracts!).

Ever heard of the latin term "CAVEAT EMPTOR"?

As far as the Beech 1900 CLT correlation. You miss the point. A guy is saying he aint going to fly a plane for this operator because of an NTSB preliminary report, but you and I both know for a fact that if Alaska Airlines called this guy up, he'd sell his sisters cherry to work there. What's up with that? You know what's up with that.

It's almost like you are blaming me for the fact that this industry can be deadly and is rife with people of dubious integrity.

I have seen alot of time builders come in the doors at skydiving operations and I can tell you there is two sides to this coin.

 

[stillaboo]

I can tell you there is two sides to this coin.

No you can't, b/c there are NOT 2 sides to this situation. It is quite obvious you are entirely unfamiliar with this company.

What I see is a bunch of people whining about their foibles in PFT. I see whining about an "alleged" aircraft control problem possibly caused by who knows what, since the NTSB report is still preliminary. I see whining about recieving training and not getting a promised job (dang don't you people read your contracts. Contracts? We don't need no stinking contracts!).

What you see is wrong, 'WrightAvia'!

If you were to see their aircraft, you would see that "alleged" is not the correct term to use.

You see 'whining' when nobody recieves any training at all for their $2500, company specfic or otherwise! You only assume they get the training and not a job. Don't assume this.

The contract stipulates they will refund all costs upon written request (I've read the whole thing. I do read stinkin' contracts). They have 60 days to do this. In the last year, he hasn't refunded a dime to anyone. Having a reciept is of no value.

The man and/or company have been found liable by the Lee County court every time a student has taken him to court, but the court leaves no recourse for securing payment, only empty judgements against a bankrupt man and a shell company. The assests of the company and the man are 0, and the $ depositied is immediatly put in his wife's name so as to keep it from being subject to judgement.

This company is the worst thing that has ever happened to aviation.

Please don't EVER compare this company to the CLT crash. If Capt. Leslie or FO Gibbs had known about the impropper adjustment of the elevator turnbuckles, they would have never 'jumped into that aircraft at the drop of a hat'.

I'm sorry, but defending Tim Pacini while calously mentioning the deaths of 19 people and equating it to a low-timer's over-eagerness is just too much for me in 1 post.

Rant over.
-Boo!

 

[snoopy_1]

First of all there is NO SUCH THING AS A BANNER TOW ENDORSEMENT,
Second the season is over, you should of started back in jan, or feb, if you start training now you won't tow banners untill the spring on 2004.

I towed for Aerial Sign Company in Hollywood Florida, this is the place you should call if you want to tow banners, you will make more money and fly the best aircraft in the bussiness.

Stay away from daytona buddy, it's bad news, that guy you've been talking to is full of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, he will get a bullet thru his head one day.

 

[WrightAvia]

Please don't EVER compare this company to the CLT crash. If Capt. Leslie or FO Gibbs had known about the impropper adjustment of the elevator turnbuckles, they would have never 'jumped into that aircraft at the drop of a hat'.

I'm sorry, but defending Tim Pacini while calously mentioning the deaths of 19 people and equating it to a low-timer's over-eagerness is just too much for me in 1 post.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, you missed the correlation...no cookie for you. In the age of the internet, you fools and your money are still being parted. I bet several people told you guys not to go there, but you figured "Getting ripped off CAN'T happen to me!"

By the way, you forgot to mention my calously mentioning Alaska Airlines too!

Pacini's plane crash is still a preliminary report. It's been over a year and they haven't been able to pin a lack of aileron control continuity on it. Hmmmm?

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

hey Beetle

I totally agree with Snoopy.

I worked for Aerial Sign Company in NJ (they have two bases) and that IS so far the best company I've reaserched and worked for. Great bunch of people to work with. The pay is excellent and there is no fee for training (they know if they make money off of you at least they can invest some $ into your training). They also pay the best and MAINTAIN their planes like you wouldn't believe.
ALSO: they have their own ground crew, so that you don't really have to set up the banners yourself like in many other places.

There is only a banner tow "waver" from the FAA, but no license. That's not hard to get. You do need a tailwheel endorsment, which helps A LOT when getting a banner tow job. It costs usually less than $1000.

Hope that helps.
best luck

 

[stillaboo]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever,

At least you're educated on the issue now. It might surprise you, but most of the guys who go there do not have all the info either, otherwise they wouldn't go.

In that respect, I think you missed the correlation b/t all the guys who go there and you, hmm?

-Boo!

 

[WrightAvia]

I hear you stillaboo...It just seems like this outfit is sooooo talked about as THE crappy place to work for and to do training with, that it seems that when you hear somebody ragging about the place it's like "dude...dint you know pi$$ing in a light socket was going to shock you?"

I selected and completed a 141 school for flight training before the benefit of the internet and got out just before they filed bankruptcy...EVEN WHILE THEY WERE STILL TAKING DEPOSITS FOR TRAINING. I know how hinky these places can be.

As far as the kids in the crash. I don't know any more than you or anybody else does, till the NTSB report comes back as final. If the operator is proven to be negligent in his maintenance and operation of that aircraft...then by all means, send that ass to hell. Till then, it's hearsay.

 

[stillaboo]

If the operator is proven to be negligent in his maintenance and operation of that aircraft...then by all means, send that ass to hell. Till then, it's hearsay.

The guy doing the MX on the aircraft there is a CFI, not an A&P (well, thats how it was last year when I visited the facilities posing as a prospective student). Working on getting your A&P doesn't count.

WA, you've been on flightinfo long enough to be informed. Not everyone is as fortunate as yourself.

-Boo!