AWACs UAL Flying--TranStates/GoJets

[BE99chick]

I just read something about Trans States getting a bunch of CRJ700s and financing for a bunch more to fly as United Express under that GoJets or JetsGo thing or whatever the he11 it's called.

I thought that "Go" thing was formed as an "Alter Eagle"/American Connection (b@st@rds) to get around APAs scope clause...now it's associating with United?

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anything on this forum about it...could that be where AWACs UAL flying will "Go"????

 

[Furloughed80]

UAL Bid?

Has anyone heard anything about the UAL bid lately? It seems that we have re-entered the "cone of silence"

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

I just read something about Trans States getting a bunch of CRJ700s and financing for a bunch more to fly as United Express under that GoJets or JetsGo thing or whatever the he11 it's called.

I thought that "Go" thing was formed as an "Alter Eagle"/American Connection (b@st@rds) to get around APAs scope clause...

#1 Trans States Airlines isn't getting any 70 seat jets or CRJ 700.

#2 American Connection is not an "alter Eagle" airline and GoJets has nothing to do with AA. It is Republic #2.

Third, and most importantly, get a clue before you put the stupid sh!t from your head down in words.

Best regards,

PtP

 

[BE99chick]

Speak for yourself idiot

 

[BE99chick]

Trans States Firms Up Commitment to Buy CRJ –700s from Bombardier for United Express. Bombardier reached an agreement with GoJet Airlines, a subsidiary of Trans States Holdings, for an order for 10 CRJ700s valued at $317 million. The deal includes options for an additional 40 CRJ700s, which if exercised would be valued at up to $1.6 billion. GoJet's CRJ700s will be configured with 66 seats in three classes and will be operated as United Express on behalf of United Airlines. Trans States, based in St. Louis, operates a fleet of 48 ERJs and 25 Jetstream 41s as American Connection, US Airways Express and United Express.

This is from one of our company newsletters. Originally, I had the common courtesy to not cut and paste from our company documents. However since PalmingHimselfPilot thinks I talk "sheet" here it is.

I posted an honest question on this site to see if anybody heard anything. If some jacka$$ from TransStates doesn't like it, or my personal opinions about that company or American Connection...he can shove it.

 

[jtf]

It has been mentioned before on this board. I guess you haven't been looking.

Trans States is currently a completely separate entity. The union wants GoJets under one seniority list and contract like CHQ/ Republic (especially since the scope of the current contracts requires that). The company wants it totally separate and nonunion- what a hell that would be considering how bad they sh*t on the contract and union at Trans States.

They have been talking about the 70 seaters for United since before the rebids for Air Wisconsin flying.

I don't know if the GoJet airplanes will truly replace Air Wisconsin flying- my guess is partially replacing some of their capacity and partially replacing some of the mainline capacity that was announced to be decreasing some time ago also.

GoJets is a scary, scary thing. It is a direct attempt to circumvent two separate scope clauses- AA mainline and Trans States. It is lowering of the bar for airline pilots. Scope has a reason- to protect pilot jobs (even crappy ones) and for keeping the bar from going lower. Even if the Trans States union wins in arbitration or federal court if GoJets goes on as planned, it is still getting around the AA scope and is still not a good thing. 70 seaters are here to stay at the "regionals" and 90 seaters already have their feet in the door with MESA's Freedom. There are an awful lot of pilots who are going to be trapped and won't make it to anything bigger and better with all of the regional growth. Hopefully people who are thinking about getting into the profession (and those already here) will start to see the reality and either not come in or not keep their heads buried in the sand over the whole issue.

Please look into issues a little more before calling a group of pilots b@st@rds. You obviously don't know what is going on currently and before you blast a group you know nothing about, you could just do a forum search to find information- or pose a question without the blast. There are other threads here and on TSAlounge for you to inform yourself.

 

[BE99chick]

Thanks. I didn't mean the pilots were b@st@rds, I meant management.

That American Connection thing burned a lot of Eagle pilots. I know CHQ and Corporate were part of it too; but it spurned growth for Eagle. The details don't need to be re-hashed.

Now, I'm seeing TSA do the same thing again...UAL side.

Have you guys thought about a "Single Carrier Petition" like Mesa did? Might work....

Thanks for the education....I appreciate it.

 

[BE99chick]

I looked at my original post, and didn't see anything where I "bashed" a group of pilots. I wasn't even thinking about the pilot group when I made that post, just the company and their dealings with AMR (in my mind, AMR was included in the b@st@rd group...I guess I'll have to spell it out next time).

I guess you guys are so springloaded to jump all over anybody who makes any comment with ANY inkling of negativity, that it was assumed I blamed the pilots.

I just wanted to know if anybody thinks AWAC's flying is going to TSAs/GoJets new 700s.

And, I still think American Connection is a bad deal for Eagle. No apologies there.

 

[Scapegoat]

We have a very sensitive group here today.

Anyway, GoJet(s) is different than Jetsgo (Canadian) who just filed BK btw. United will pull some of its flying from AWAC. But dont be too upset. I think we will see United slow or stop competing domestically within 3 years, (with the exception of Ted). UAL is only making $$ on the international routes and that will be their bread and butter for a while. You will still see them operate in SFO, ORD and IAD but their regional flying (and contracts) will slow down.
~Just a thought from a Chicago boy. C-ya

 

[BE99chick]

I can see that.

And for those of you who are metrosensitive today...I was being sarcastic about the Single Carrier Petition...Mesa's worked.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I love it when pilots think they own the flying they do for their respective company. "Their taking all of our flying!!!" If it's your flying then why don't you take it and go start an airline on your own? Because you don't own it, you are paid to fly what, where and when managment tells you to. If you don't like it you leave or you negotiate work rules into your contract. But you sure aren't going to tell the company what to do with their planes, flying, etc... Especially when it's privately owned like TSA. Leave it to ol Hulas to try the end around on the pilots at TSA. I see a whole lot of nothin has changed since I was there 4 1\2 yrs ago.

Hang on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.....

 

[millhouse21]

Well, we actually DO have a clause in our contract which says that all flying done by the company will be performed by pilots on the seniority list. Don't forget that this contract was also signed by the company also and that it SHOULD be legally binding.

Now the company says that this flying will not be done by Trans States but by GoJet which is owned by Trans States Holdings. Trans States Holdings is owned by the same people, HQ in the same building, same officers, and was started solely to get around the contract. I think this development should be viewed with alarm by any group with a scope clause. If this flies (no pun) then it seems to me that any company can get out of the scope clause by forming an additional layer of holding companies. What's next?

 

[Saluki Dawg]

This is precisely why when we signed our current Contract at XJT, that our scope clause not only scoped ExpressJet Airlines, but also the holding company, ExpressJet Holdings. This prevents the holding company from forming any kind of alter ego carrier to circumvent our CBA.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

I equate GOJet with Freedom Airlines. From what I understand it is managements desire to circumvent unionized labor. If a particular airline can not compete enough, start a cheaper on. First year payscale is always cheaper than second or third year pay scale. Not to mention that it offers ZERO protection from management's whims, or new changes in policy. I have a lot of respect for labor groups who have to battle this monster. TSA pilots should have some kind of "alter ego" clause in their current contract that will prevent this. Continental vs. New York Air; Mesa vs. Freedom. This should be a "no brainer". Best of luck to TSA pilots, you are always welcome on an AWAC jumpseat. If any pilot leaves to join GOJet pass their name along. SCAB! I'll do anything I can to help your cause. Give 'em hell, because that's what you'll get if you don't.

Peace!

 

[cocknbull]

Same thing happen to the Mesa pilots. I think their new contract prevents the whole CCair/Mesa/Air Midwest/Freedom whipsaw thing under the same holding company.

 

[beech1900kid]

AWAC's contract always has prevented bs like this CHQ/Rep thing and the trans states/go jets thing. to (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this point, but I'm pretty clear on our contract here).

I can't believe ALPA signed off on a contract that would allow this. Isn't this why we have ALPA? To stop crap like this from happening. You know the whole strength in numbers thing. Unity. One voice. One Union. Right guys? Guys? (imagine sound of chirping crickets)

 

[millhouse21]

This is precisely why when we signed our current Contract at XJT, that our scope clause not only scoped ExpressJet Airlines, but also the holding company, ExpressJet Holdings. This prevents the holding company from forming any kind of alter ego carrier to circumvent our CBA.

We thought we were covered too. What happens when ExpressJet Holdings Holdings starts? That would be just as ridiculous as what is happening to us. The point is that any lawyer worthy of the name would find a loophole in that language. We are discovering that a contract is not much use if one of the parties has no intention of honoring it.

 

[Rottweiller]

AWAC's contract always has prevented bs like this CHQ/Rep thing and the trans states/go jets thing. to (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this point, but I'm pretty clear on our contract here).

I can't believe ALPA signed off on a contract that would allow this. Isn't this why we have ALPA? To stop crap like this from happening. You know the whole strength in numbers thing. Unity. One voice. One Union. Right guys? Guys? (imagine sound of chirping crickets)

Regionals - ALPA doesn't give a cr@p. Plain and simple.

 

[DX Rick]

It's Freedom Air all over again.
You will always have those guys eager to "fly the jet" and will take the job. When they do, they will know what it feels like to be the beatin red headed stepchild of the regionals.
For the guys taking the job...have fun jumpseating.

 

[jtf]

Trans States Holdings was created (or more likely is still in the process of being created) for the express purpose of finding a way around the scope language of two separate contracts- AA mainline and Trans States. The company did not exist at the time the current Trans States contract was signed. Hopefully the arbitrator or Federal court will see it for what it is and not accept a fat grocery bag full of cash to look the other way like most of the other arbitrators did in ruling against Eagle versus American Connection in the first place. I'm glad to have a job, but at the same time I believe Eagle got screwed. I'm afraid a very similar back door job may be on the way for the current Trans States and quite possibly any other pilot group with a similar scum-bag management.

 

[210FR8DOG]

Millhouse is right. The contract says something to the effect of (I don't have it in front of me right now) all flying by Trans States Airlines, inc. etc. The mistake was made of believing that a common sense translation would be obvious. But some snake decided to add the word "holdings" and now all hell is breaking loose. It's kinda like hijackings before 9/11. The mindset was to let them do whatever, we'll land and everyone should be OK. It's all different now after some cokesucker decided to use them as bombs. Now some other cokesucker decided to add words to some company, all of a sudden making it a "different" company. The rules have changed kids. Hang tuff, oh yeah, and wish us luck. This is not the pilots decision in any way.