Aviation Fuel Exhaustion and Fuel Starva

[Rgould]

I am a student pilot working towards my private and then commercial pilot’s license. Presently, I am writing a term paper for school on Aviation Fuel Exhaustion and Fuel Starvation incidents/accidents. I am asking any pilots who have personally dealt with these issues, or know of stories to write me a quick line. I am also looking to find out what are the consequences of commercial airline pilots who land with less than the FAA reserve limits. In addition any web pages you think may be helpful in researching information on this topic. Thanks for helping a student!

 

[2LT]

www.ntsb.gov

Click on the 'incident/accident' database -- do a search.

 

[jbud]

I am also looking to find out what are the consequences of commercial airline pilots who land with less than the FAA reserve limits.

Landing with less than reserve fuel has no consequences, at least through my 121 experience. Unless the burn-off numbers were calculated wrong, landing with less than reserve fuel is not a big deal. The whole point of reserve fuel is to be able to burn it when something goes differently than planned, whether that be something major like a last minute diversion or something as insignificant as a last minute runway change that means 5 more minutes in the air.

Hope this helps!! Also, check out the Jetstream crash near Allentown a couple of years ago. I think the NTSB has a detailed case study of the incident on their website. It's pretty shocking, and a very good case of fuel starvation/pilot error.

 

[Flying Illini]

No personal experience with either but this was a topic I ALWAYS stressed to my students. For whatever reason I was very passionate on this topic. This is kind of how I explained it to them:

Fuel Starvation - Def. Fuel isn't getting to the engine. As long as it's not your fault (ie, a fuel line busts) its OK. The results can be just as bad as fuel exhaustion but as long as it's not your fault I don't have to kick your @ss.

Fuel Exhaustion - Def. There is no fuel in the tanks to get to the engine. THIS IS YOUR FAULT! This makes you eligible for the Darwin awards. There is no excuse for running out of gas other than stupidity! If you survive the ensuing forced landing I will be sure to find you and finish the job.

 

[Cardinal]

One sketchy area in Part 121 operations is the fact that fuel gauges can be MEL'd, even on aircraft without a fuel computer or totalizer. There are conditions that must be met, such as a fuel log (pounds added minus pounds burnt equal pounds remaining), but the opportunity is created to depart with much less fuel than one "thinks" is on board. It happened to a crew a while back, ended up getting the low fuel idiot lights late in the flight. Captain was canned, FO suspended for a month or so.

 

[350DRIVER]

I second the above. Many listings will be found in the NTSB reports. You should be able to find everything that you need there. Hard to land below mimimums when you are required to calculate fuel burn and leave a photo copy at each departure airport. Our ops specs requires additional precautions as well so I don't think that I have ever come close although I know a few people who have.



good luck

3 5 0

 

[Timebuilder]

The only time I landed without the customary minimum was for part 91 relocation flights in VFR conditions. Otherwise, we were VERY strict about that extra fuel.

Good point above about the definitions of starvation versus exhaustion. I think the crash outside avoca was exhaustion, not starvation. Check your fuel receipt, check your tanks, and watch which truck is puting fuel in your plane. I think you can remove a lot of risk by simply doing those few things.

I know of a guy that ruined two Navajo engines by walking inside the FBO and not watching which fuel truck was next to the airplane. Further, he never sumped the tanks after fueling, and the op specs required his attention to fueling procedures.

He took off on the fuel still in the system from before fueling, the engines quit, and luckily he made it back to the airport. I was hired shortly after that, and got to fly the new engines.

You have to pay attention!!!

 

[El Duderino]

timebuilder you sound like an amateur piece of $hit. Your post annoy me. YOU ARE ON KEYBOARD PROBATION FOR ONE WEEK.

Dude

 

[WrightAvia]

Fuel Exhaustion - Def. There is no fuel in the tanks to get to the engine. THIS IS YOUR FAULT! This makes you eligible for the Darwin awards. There is no excuse for running out of gas other than stupidity! If you survive the ensuing forced landing I will be sure to find you and finish the job.

Somebody from ILLINOIS lecturing about stupidity, WTF? First of all, in planes without EGT and Fuel flow guages, a mechanical malfunction CAN put you out of gas unawares.

Second of all, you got the gumption to call people stupid, when you live in a state where the men are pu$$y whipped enough to let the Diane Feinsteins pass state legislature against the civilian ownership of machine guns, silencers, SBS's or SBR's?

Sheesh, why don't you call back, when MEN have made your state a free state again.

 

[WrightAvia]

Don't take it personal Illini...but the logic is this...where is MEIGS FIELD? It's gone. You live in a police state.

 

[mainah]

You might also want to look up the Air Canada 767 that did a glider landing after a miscommunication of fuel onboard due to conversion differences. I believe it was the early 80's.

 

[WrightAvia]

I'm still waiting for ILLINI, to tell me it's STUPID that the mixture control cable broke off at the linkage during my departure run up, causing my plane to burn off 4 hours of fuel in 1 hour and 25 minutes. Causing me to have to dead stick into my destination airfield with empty tanks.

Which would fit into HIS discription of "fuel exhastion".

 

[Flying Illini]

Wrightavia: FAR 91.205, read it. Fuel guage required. (I also instructed in aircraft w/o EGT or fuel flow guages). I realize fuel guages aren't accurate until reading empty...But if you watch the guages you can tell when fuel is leaving the tanks faster than it should be. You won't be able to tell how much is left, but if I look at a fuel guage and it was full on the ground and after t/o but 40 minutes into the flight they are both reading less than half, I am going to get very nervous and land somewhere to check it out.

As for the two other "political" items you listed. I can't do a d@mn thing about either one of those. I hated to see Meigs go as much as anybody else. Daley doesn't speak for me, he is the mayor of Chicago and I live downstate (thankfully!). And Diane Feinsteins, I have no idea who she is so if you don't like it, move here, run for office, and introduce your own legislation to reverse it.

 

[Flying Illini]

This is why I feel it is STUPID to run out of gas:
Last winter (I believe) a father, husband, and pilot took his family of four (himself, wife, and twin teenage daughters) to cleveland from columbus, OH for dinner. They left after dark to return to Port Columbus CMH (I think, it may have been OSU) and long story short, he ran out of gas. He didn't refuel in Cleveland and there is no reason in a light, GA single that you can't add a few gallons for insurance. He ran out of gas about 5 minutes from his destination and tried to dead-stick it onto a freeway. He got it onto the freeway but the left main was on the shoulder and it pulled the aircraft into the median where it hit a concrete culvert (that runs under those emergency vehicle only u-turn areas) and flipped. The impact killed him and his wife who were in the front while the flip seriously injured both his girls. They survived but when they woke up in the hospital they found out that both their parents didn't make it.

I find this an unneccessary tragedy and it usually makes an impression upon students as well.

 

[Timebuilder]

timebuilder you sound like an amateur piece of $hit.

Oh, come on, don't hold back.

Tell me what you REALLY think!

 

[sky37d]

The AirCanada crash was caused by fuel exhaustion. At least part of the blame placed on the then recent conversion to metric system, and operating rules for the various groups involved.
The pilot did a fantastic job, landed on a closed airstrip that was in use as a drag strip.

 

[AeroBoy]

So what happened to the transvestites at the drag strip, and what color dress was the pilot wearing at the time?

 

[sky37d]

So what happened to the transvestites at the drag strip, and what color dress was the pilot wearing at the time?

Don't know about the pilot, but here's a pict of the drag strip and glider (formerly a Boeing 767 product)

Gimli Glider