autopilot question in 172SP

[RipCurl]

BTW GoingHot -

I teach my private students how to use the AP in case they fly into a cloud. Sure, I teach them how to turn around with the attitude indicator, etc. But the way I see it, pushing that little AP button and then taking a deep breath might just save their life someday.

 

[minitour]

This particular CFI has lots of hours in 172's. She even has a few hours in this particular 172SP. It's just that she only does training flights so she knows how to use everything except the autopilot because she's never even thought about using it. She learned it when there wasn't autopilots in her aircraft. When she has students in there she most surely doesn't allow them to use it while training. I dont really see the problem with her now knowing since the flight school hasnt' had the aircraft that long.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

She has a few hours in this particular airplane but she doesn't know how to use the autopilot? So she doesn't know how to work the airplane??

Even if you don't want your students to use the autopilot (I'm about to transition a kid from a 172P with barely two radios into a G1000 DA40), they need to know HOW to use the automation and that means you as a CFI are responsible for knowing how the airplane (and all of it's toys) works.

I learned how to fly on airplanes that had no autopilot too, but I'm not about to pretend it doesn't exist in aircraft where it does. Can flying be done without an autopilot? Absolutely! Why though, should you be paying for a checkout (it is a required insurance checkout, right? Meaning you are otherwise qualified to operate the aircraft? Cat/Class/Type if required?) and not learn how to work the darn thing? I don't like that.

I'm sure she's a great person and probably a darn fine instructor, but I think she and the school owe it to you to teach you how to work the airplane when that's why you were getting "checked out" in the first place.

Flying along by yourself, fiddling with the AP is a bad idea IMHO. Imagine you've just leveled off at X,500 VFR to ABC airport. You just turned on the AP.....or so you thought. As you turn around to grab something out of your flight bag, you knock over your Pepsi so now you lean over to clean it up. Meanwhile, the autopilot never was engaged and....you look up just in time to see the ground rushing up at you. That would be a bad scenario, right? But KNOWING how to use the airplane (and all of its toys) can be that important. As someone already said (a few someones actually), it could save your life.

JMHO

-mini

 

[Alin10123]

Was it a KAP140? I think that's what's in most of the newer Cessnas (pre-glass). The thing that gets most people with that autopilot is that you can set that altitude to whatever you want, and push the alt button, and nothing will ever happen. There are two vertical modes - altitude hold mode and vertical speed mode. The alt button cycles between them.

Example - I'm flying along level at 2000' and I want to climb to 5000'. I hit the ap button and I see ROL and VS pop up. This will keep the wings level and maintain 0 fpm climb/descent (which is different from an altitude hold because it won't return to an altitude if you hit an updraft or something). I set the heading bug and hit HDG. The airplane will now fly that heading. Now comes the tricky part. I turn the knob to 4000 and hit the alt button. I see that the VS annunciation has been replaced by ALT, but nothing else happens. The autopilot is now in altitude hold mode, and will stay at my current altitude. If the airplane is displaced, it will return to it (unlike VS mode). I hit the alt button again to return to VS mode, and rotate the knob to 5000. Below the VS annunciation pops up ALT ARM. 5000' is now armed, and all I have to do is select my desired climb rate. I push the up button a few times and the airplane will now climb at the selected rate and level off at 5000'.

I know it sounds really complicated when I'm trying to explain it to you over the internet, but if you just play with it for about 10 minutes straight in flight, you'd figure it out. An alternative is to find another instructor who knows the system and can teach it to you.

hmm... i think i actually get the altitude hold part.
Yes, it is a KAP140

When you say heading bug do you mean the heading bug that you can turn and set on the DG? Also... can you couple the thing to follow the GPS line? Is that possible?

 

[Alin10123]

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

She has a few hours in this particular airplane but she doesn't know how to use the autopilot? So she doesn't know how to work the airplane??

Even if you don't want your students to use the autopilot (I'm about to transition a kid from a 172P with barely two radios into a G1000 DA40), they need to know HOW to use the automation and that means you as a CFI are responsible for knowing how the airplane (and all of it's toys) works.

I learned how to fly on airplanes that had no autopilot too, but I'm not about to pretend it doesn't exist in aircraft where it does. Can flying be done without an autopilot? Absolutely! Why though, should you be paying for a checkout (it is a required insurance checkout, right? Meaning you are otherwise qualified to operate the aircraft? Cat/Class/Type if required?) and not learn how to work the darn thing? I don't like that.

I'm sure she's a great person and probably a darn fine instructor, but I think she and the school owe it to you to teach you how to work the airplane when that's why you were getting "checked out" in the first place.

Flying along by yourself, fiddling with the AP is a bad idea IMHO. Imagine you've just leveled off at X,500 VFR to ABC airport. You just turned on the AP.....or so you thought. As you turn around to grab something out of your flight bag, you knock over your Pepsi so now you lean over to clean it up. Meanwhile, the autopilot never was engaged and....you look up just in time to see the ground rushing up at you. That would be a bad scenario, right? But KNOWING how to use the airplane (and all of its toys) can be that important. As someone already said (a few someones actually), it could save your life.

JMHO

-mini

I guess you've got a point. I always figure worst case scenario i just hand fly the airplane. When i said a few hours. I'm talking like only a few hours. That's not the primary place she instructs at. She actually instructs at my flight school where i'm getting my instrument rating. She is actually a brand new CFI that just got her rating not too long ago. The reason that she's allowed to teach at the other flight school is because she got one of her CFI ratings there with the owner. She's got one or two students there but the majority is where i'm learning at. The only time she's got in the aircraft is primarily with the discovery flights that she's done. Not really much time to fiddle around in there. Most people dont want to pay extra for all of the bells and whistles in that aircraft when they are training. I've got a couple hours in an older 172 but not really much at all. I just wanted a chance to fly an aircraft that was a tad faster which the 172SP is about 30 knots faster in cruise than my primary trainer is. I can't really say that's an excuse, but it's not really that huge of a deal to me. I was just curious as to how it works. I wasn't even expecting an AP until we were on our way back and i glanced down and saw what looked like one. Even if she did know, it's really tough to learn all of the ins and outs of the aircraft within that short checkout time.

 

[FL420]

Here you go

I think i did that already. Dont think i came up with much. I even tried doing a google search for an autopilot simulator or something so i can just tinker with it. But i didn't find anything.

https://www3.bendixking.com/PilotGuides

 

[mcjohn]

I'm instructing in that same plane with all the KLN-94 moving map stuff and that same KAP 140. I can make everything work well enough to show a student all the basics. But half of it I have to admit to being unable to use. I found RipCurl's explanation of the two alt modes helpful.
I can bang on the face of that KLN-94 all day long......I've learned not to do that with the KAP-140 unless I want to put on unintended airshow.

Oh crap! I had to edit this in. I intended to tell the thread poster to look at the supplements in the back of the 172S POH. It's bar far the only practical explanation that walks you through some steps of the KAP140. The King Bendix guides are really weak. Especially for the KLN-94 (the only one I looked at.)

 

[Immelman]

Make sure you know how to disengage it - sounds like you already do. Make sure you know what it can do to pitch trim.. not a huge deal in a 172. Aside from that, just figure it out. They are pretty simple.

They are very useful for single pilot IFR, obviously. Worth their weight in gold. About the comments on hand flying all your VFR time building... ehh.. its a 172! If you want to be a better "stick" get some tailwheel time! I've flown one across the country and back w/o autopilot, no big deal. It was hands off most of the time anyways.. maybe use a pinkie finger to keep it level. Have fun.

 

[Kream926]

push the GPS button thats next to the annuciator pannel to slave NAV1 to the GPS then hit the NAV button on the autoilot, that should do the trick. if you want it to follow a VOR just skip step 1

 

[atldc9]

Read the supplement in the POH. It has normal, and non-normal checklists. You should be aware, there are specific limitations with regard to the AP, as well as required preflight checks prior to its use.

Make sure you truly understand how to turn the AP off, and where the circuit breaker is. If it is not doing what you want, or what you think you told it to do, pull the breaker and forget about it.

You should find another CFI as well. There is no excuse for giving an aircraft checkout and not knowing how to use something as serious as the autopilot. At the very least, they should have discussed the limitaitons and ways of turning the AP off, as well as preflight requirements.

 

[MauleSkinner]

BTW GoingHot -

I teach my private students how to use the AP in case they fly into a cloud. Sure, I teach them how to turn around with the attitude indicator, etc. But the way I see it, pushing that little AP button and then taking a deep breath might just save their life someday.

Just out of curiosity, what do you teach them to do next? Say, for instance, they go into the clouds because the clouds are getting lower than they want to fly...the 180 doesn't work in this case.

I ask because there was a student pilot a few months ago that got himself stuck on top of a layer...fortunately he found a hole and got down, but nobody I talked to had any real specific ideas for how to get him down if the hole wasn't there.

Fly safe!

David