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Attn: Saab Drivers

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cargoflyr69

cargoflyr69

V-Dub for Life
Joined
May 20, 2003
Posts
627
The other day a friend of mine had a bird strike in the mighty saab. They were at a low altitude entering the pattern for a visual approach at around 170 kts. It was then that they smacked a seagull-sized bird, direct hit on the capt. side windshield. No real damage, but it was quite messy. it was capt's leg but my FO buddy landed cause the mess obscured the view so bad on the left side.

At our company we only use front windshield heat if the engine intake ice protection is on. Otherwise we fly with it off. I know that the w/s heat makes the glass a bit more flexible in the event of a stirke, but in the above incident it was turned off. I only wonder what woulda happened if they were doing barber pole -10 on the decent when it happened?

So, What are your thoughts and/or company proceedures about using windshield heat in the Saab?
 
most, if not all manufactures build aircraft to withstand 150% of the published limits in the AFM's.
Click to expand...

No offense, but this is a dangerous way of thinking. Limits are limits, period. Yes aircraft can handle a one time occurence over the limit, but it is with in the limits that repeated occurences are safe. Any thing that is done out side the limitations (especially repeatedly) is dangerous.
 
The Saab 340 was designed to withstand birdstrikes up to Vmo with the windshield heat off. I personally took one in the CA side window at 245 knots, Vmo -5, and there was no damage... and I didn't have the window heat on.
 
Saabcaptain,

That is good to know. Probably made one helluva impact noise huh?

Anybody know if there are aircraft that use w/s heat as a bird strike counter measure as SOP?
 
Distortion? There was no distortion due to windshield heat.


If I remember correctly, the windshield heat goes on after engine start and stays on until either after landing or until shut-down (it's been a while). Windshield heat was considered "level one" icing protection, meaning it is on all the time.
 
When we first got the Saabs we ran without the window heat on, then later they changed it to being on all the time (to just prevent forgetting to turn it on when you needed it) and now back to it off unless needed. Saab Aircraft says that testing shows that birdstrike protection is not increased with the window with the heat on (I don't know if I believe that but that's what they say) but regardless will easily take hits at Vmo with the heat off.

Yeah the hit at 245 kts was pretty loud. Low level (3,000) at night we were in cruise and my FO was PF. I happened to be looking down at my flight case and the crack sound was tremendous... kinda glad I wasn't staring out the window, would have been more nerve wracking that way. :cool:
 
Saab's are bulit like Tanks....

Saab can withstand a bird strike at VMO (250 KIAS) and keep going as long as long as the windscreens doesn't shatter. Been there done that.

At Colgan, we only use the W/S heat when we need it. A while back there was a problem with the W/S Temp controllers failing and overheating but Saab fixed that with a Service Bulletin. Turning the W/S heat on in the Saab doesn't blur your vision like in some other planes, You don't even notice it.

C/P maybe it's time you came over to the Kenworth of the Skies and get off that Biatch.
 
Yes, I believe the "distorted view" people are thinking of the Beech, as there is no change in the Saab with the windshield heat on.

I had a rep from Saab riding in my jumpseat last year and he told me TWO interesting things:

1- As mentioned at least twice above, leaving the windshield heat on all the time does nothing to make the windows more "pliable" when birdstrikes occur. It is SOP in other airplanes and somewhere along the way it was assumed that what works on a Boeing will also work on a Saab. Not so. I have noticed that the pilots in MY company who use the w/s heat all the time have some experience in jets... That's probably where they picked it up.

2- You didn't hear it from ME, but Saab's stance on the engine anti-ice thing is that the +10 degree thing was forced on them by the FAA. There is apparently no evidence that there will be ice buildup in the intakes above +5, but "The Man" made 'em do it.

In any case, at my company we turn the windshields on whenever the engine anti-ice is engaged, so those switches get a real workout anyway.
 
I.P. Freley said:
Not so. I have noticed that the pilots in MY company who use the w/s heat all the time have some experience in jets... That's probably where they picked it up.
Click to expand...

Mesaba used to use the windshield heat all the time - been a while since I was back there, but..... back in the day.... when they had 72 A's,B's,B+'s (and even a few B-'s) that's the way they did it. Probably still do, but someone else will have to confirm that.

I.P. Freley said:
2- You didn't hear it from ME, but Saab's stance on the engine anti-ice thing is that the +10 degree thing was forced on them by the FAA. There is apparently no evidence that there will be ice buildup in the intakes above +5, but "The Man" made 'em do it.
Click to expand...

yeah, that dastardly FAA... I'm sure it had nothing to do with the multiple flameouts.... oops, I meant "power roll backs" they kept having in light icing conditions - not that engine heat did anygood apparently. Had 3 in one flight once one cold night - one on the left and 2 on the right. Nice 10 foot flames out the tailpipe according to the Flight Attendant. The flash was just bright enough to see the terrified faces of the people sitting behind the wing. Ah, the good ol' days.

Of course, Saab said power roll backs were a once-in-2500hr occurance... I had 7 in my 3,400hrs in the Slaab. Can anyone beat me?
 
FatesPawn:

we (Mesaba) now keep the windshields off until their needed - something about leaving them on all of the time and delamination.

ever have a dual rollback? it's quite enjoyable.

FO
 
Well I've had zero "power rollbacks" in my 1600hrs in the Saab, can anybody beat THAT?
 
Over 2000 hours- no rollbacks.

I think the cause for the rollbacks is still a mystery, but sourcing the engine intake mats from Cox instead of Lucas Aerospace seems to have had a positive effect. As far as I know, all of Eagle's Saabs have Cox mats now, and I haven't heard of a rollback in a long time.
 
Well ya got ME. I am not sure I have ever HEARD of a "rollback". Fatespawn's post just left me scratching my head.

Maybe we just have the "new improved" mats? That's all I can guess.
 
JS-32 at corpex the windshield heat
goes on after second engine start and
stays on till the afterlanding check.
Heard it was for strength. No distortion
of vision...what the heck do they do wrong
on the bee-atch???
 
Every rollback I've ever had (5) in roughly 3500 hours in the thing has come at about -1c and light rain. Never had one in the snow yet......
 

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