??ATP instructors (or Initial MEI's)...

[KnowledgeSeeker]

This is for anyone who did their MEI first (before CFI & II). I figure I would ask ATP instructors because i know they tend to do their MEI before their CFI.

Anyway... What was your checkride like in terms of the knowledge you needed to know at the private level. From the FAR's you could legally teach an initial private student (0 Hrs) in a multi right? So then would a initial MEI instructor be expected to demonstrate basically all the knowledge of the CFI (minus commercial single manuevers) and the MEI both in their oral and the practical?? Meaning a MEI on paper, but a CFI and MEI checkride in reality.

Or more precisely what did anyone else have to demonstrate during their checkride? Just teaching multi manuevers and aerodynamics, or the whole deal?

 

[dmspilot00]

KnowledgeSeeker,

I think you will find it easier to answer your own question if you realize there is really no such thing as an "MEI." It's a term coined by people in the industry. There is a flight instructor certificate, on which you can either have Airplane SEL, SES, MEL, MES, Glider, etc. There isn't a such thing as a Multiengine Instructor, but actually a Flight Instructor with a Multiengine rating.

So instead of taking a flight instructor practical and earning a CFI certificate with a SEL raiing, you would still be taking a flight instructor practical, but earning a CFI certificate with a MEL rating.

Do you see what I mean?

Did you look at the flight instructor PTS? All PTSes are available on the FAA website, faa.gov.

Since it is your initial I am guessing you would be expected to know "the whole deal." I don't think it matters which rating you are aiming toward, since it's your initial.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

You are absolutely correct. That info was rolling around in my head, but thank you for pulling it together.

 

[gubernator]

There is a flight instructor certificate, on which you can either have Airplane SEL, SES, MEL, MES, Glider, etc.

Almost, but not quite. In the Airplane category, Flight Instructor certificates are issued for Airplane Single Engine, Airplane Multi Engine, and Instrument Airplane. There is no designation as to Land or Sea. If you look at the back of your Flight Instructor certificate, you'll see that this is true. My flight instructor certificate, for example, reads "Airplane Single Engine" and "Instrument Airplane." That means that I can give instruction in both Single Engine Land and Single Engine Sea airplanes. (Assuming that I have both ASEL and ASES ratings on my Commercial Pilot certificate.)

 

[dmspilot00]

Sorry, thanks for the correction!

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I am a graduate of the ATP "Total CFI" program, so I thought I'd chime in with my experience. The biggest difference between ATP's program and the more traditional route is completing the initial CFI in a twin. Having said that it wasn't too bad of a checkride. The oral was about 2 hours long and covered all the required tasks from the PTS. I was asked to prepare and deliver a lesson on the factors effecting Vmc and further discussion on twin-engine aerodynamics.
The airplane part was easier than the oral, because I had full confidence in my ability to fly the Seminole. The oral was more nerve-racking because of the amount of material that you are required to know. One thing that did set my mind at ease a little bit is that the oral was essentially open-book. So, bring all the materials that are in the CFI PTS reference section. (This is even more important if you go to the FSDO. The FAA is only interested in the ACs, Handbooks and other items in the PTS. As far as they are concerned they are the ONLY applicable publications. Gliem, Jeppesen, King, etc... are basically N/A. Same stuff, but not written in "FAA lingo".)
Back to the checkride, after a by-the-book preflight we departed the field and did a set of steep turns, slow flight, stall series, MCA. (He asked me to only "teach" if I was instructed to do so by him. otherwise just fly.). After the basic airwork was complete he had me teach/demonstrate a shutdown, secure drill. After the engine was caged he had me make two 90 degree turns in opposite directions. Maneuver complete, he did the re-start. He did the talkin' on the radio and gave me a heading to fly toward a small field nearby "homeplate". Had me execute a normal touch and go. On X-wind he pulled the engine. did the drill, flew the pattern to a single-engine landing until 100' above and he said, I had both engines available. Completed the touch and go. Around again, engine failure on downwind. Same drill to another touch and go. Now, it was under the hood to a Localizer approach. Failed the engine outside the FAF, completed the drill and landed single-engine. Completed the after-landing checklist. Taxi to the ramp, shutdown. As I climbed out he says. " your practical test was satisfactory" Yippie! The next day I did my CFII in the same airplane with the same DPE. Did a hold on the LOC, some airwork, timed/compass turns, partial panel unusual attitude recoveries. Then a single-engine ILS (partial panel) followed by a full-stop LOC (partial panel) at homeplate. Same statement as above from the DPE. Whew! I thought I flew like crap, but within standards. I was pretty tired and the examiner added that the toughest thing to do in aviaiton is fly a light twin IFR/partial panel. Concur with that!
Returning to my point of origin I had a couple of flights in a Cessna 172 to review Commercial/PPL maneuvers and a quick 1.0 for the single-engine add-on. Oral was pretty straight-foward but in depth on the AC addressing stall-spin awareness/avoidance. Examiner had me do couple spins, including one to a heading on the checkride. A non-event really, 172 is a very docile airplane in the stall/spin flight regime. Examiner was basically cool, but he tried to rattle my cage a little, but I think thats part of the drill to ee if you can handle a little pressure.
Best of luck to you in getting your CFI...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Kaman,
Wonderful! That is exactly the info i was looking for. I am curious do most people who go through the full program at ATP do their CFII the next day and then follow up with the single add-on? That seems pretty intense. Anyway nice job doing it all together like that.

I was also wondering if you had to teach any of the ground reference manuevers (turns around a point, s-turns) or do a Drag Demo?

Thanks very much for the response, K-S

 

[Kaman]

Hi K-S,
As far as the program schedule of events my experience was business as usual for ATP. In my case, not only did I complete the "Total CFI" program, but I had just completed my Comm ME the previous week with ATP. It is a very intense program, and they not only expect instrument proficiency, but you have to perform to ATP standards while doing the instrument stuff.
One of the things that really benefited me was I had flown over 20 hours in the Seminole leading up to the checkrides, so my proficiency was at a high level. Also, the examiner is very familiar with ATP procedures and pretty much knows whether you got it together. I did a lot of hood work and instrument approaches in that 20+ hours.
During the SE add-on training, which was only about 4 hours or so, most of the training was basic airwork and commercial maneuvers. And, the spin endorsement training was also accomplished in the 172.
An intense program to say the least, but not difficult if you go prepared and committed. It was with a great sense of accomplishment and relief that I got in the car to return home.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead