Ghetto Buck
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Atlas Air or Kalitta Air?
- Thread starter Ghetto Buck
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Atlas or Kalitta
In terms of money you will be better off with Atlas, as a new hire person at Kalitta, you will get $500 per week before taxes and have to pay for a hotel room for 34 days on your own dime. When you go to the simulator you will still be be on $500 per week until after IOE is finished, simulator is another 2 1/2 weeks and IOE is another 2 1/2 weeks. Assuming there are no delays, which there will be at least a small amount of time between training events, it is 3 months before you start getting your regular pay check.
First year pay is low, but goes up reasonably after a year. Some of the Atlas guys in class are contemplating going back to Atlas mainly because of the low pay for such a long period of time.
On the other side of the coin, upgrade potential is very good at Kalitta and could happen very quickly and the company is very stable, I think there is little chance you would loose your job or get furloughed. There were people from Evergreen in the last class and both of the guys left Evergreen to go to Kalitta because the did not want to go through the regular cycle of furloughs that are common to Evergreen even though it meant lower pay initially.
Everyone wants a crystal ball, and there is none. If you think Atlas is here to stay and will be around for a long time to come without furloughs then pick Atlas because you will make more money, even with a slower upgrade time you will make more.
If you think Atlas may not make not be steady, or furlough later, then go with Kalitta. The company is doing well financially and you are likely to keep the job. If upgrade to captain is what you want, regardless of money, then Kalitta is also probably a better choice. Also basing is not a problem, everyone is based at YIP but normally gets flown from home, especially if where you live is cheaper than a flight from DTW.
I would be curious to hear from people who hear how people think Atlas is doing, as that would be the determining factor.
In terms of money you will be better off with Atlas, as a new hire person at Kalitta, you will get $500 per week before taxes and have to pay for a hotel room for 34 days on your own dime. When you go to the simulator you will still be be on $500 per week until after IOE is finished, simulator is another 2 1/2 weeks and IOE is another 2 1/2 weeks. Assuming there are no delays, which there will be at least a small amount of time between training events, it is 3 months before you start getting your regular pay check.
First year pay is low, but goes up reasonably after a year. Some of the Atlas guys in class are contemplating going back to Atlas mainly because of the low pay for such a long period of time.
On the other side of the coin, upgrade potential is very good at Kalitta and could happen very quickly and the company is very stable, I think there is little chance you would loose your job or get furloughed. There were people from Evergreen in the last class and both of the guys left Evergreen to go to Kalitta because the did not want to go through the regular cycle of furloughs that are common to Evergreen even though it meant lower pay initially.
Everyone wants a crystal ball, and there is none. If you think Atlas is here to stay and will be around for a long time to come without furloughs then pick Atlas because you will make more money, even with a slower upgrade time you will make more.
If you think Atlas may not make not be steady, or furlough later, then go with Kalitta. The company is doing well financially and you are likely to keep the job. If upgrade to captain is what you want, regardless of money, then Kalitta is also probably a better choice. Also basing is not a problem, everyone is based at YIP but normally gets flown from home, especially if where you live is cheaper than a flight from DTW.
I would be curious to hear from people who hear how people think Atlas is doing, as that would be the determining factor.
barbarian4
a bit of ultra-violence
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On Your Six
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LAZYB
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PurpleTail
Is that RMB or USD???
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my .02
I don't know anyone at Kalitta or much about the company for that matter but I do know several people that used to work and still do work for Altas and they all HATE the place with a passion.
If you are being offered the STD base then it is the "scab" (read: non union) attempt by Atlas to get around the contract.
My friends there say the company changes the rules each week. He has to put A LOT of expense on his own personal credit card and then when he submits his expense report the company fights him tooth and nail on every item and then it takes months to get reimbursed.
Also, Atlas is bankrupt. I know that doesn't mean much in the airline world but I would rather have less pay with more job security than the other way around.
Best of luck.
I don't know anyone at Kalitta or much about the company for that matter but I do know several people that used to work and still do work for Altas and they all HATE the place with a passion.
If you are being offered the STD base then it is the "scab" (read: non union) attempt by Atlas to get around the contract.
My friends there say the company changes the rules each week. He has to put A LOT of expense on his own personal credit card and then when he submits his expense report the company fights him tooth and nail on every item and then it takes months to get reimbursed.
Also, Atlas is bankrupt. I know that doesn't mean much in the airline world but I would rather have less pay with more job security than the other way around.
Best of luck.
PurpleTail--a few of your comments regarding Atlas are a bit out of date.
1. STN is now part of the ALPA pilot group. It is still a mess in that some of the pilots there are grandfathered outside of the union, but the majority of the base is now ALPA and newhires going there will be part of the ALPA pilot group and contract.
2. You are correct that Atlas is bankrupt. However the company has settled with the creditors and will be out "on or before July 29". The new management team did _not_ come after the employees for concessions during this process.
3. Every pilot carries a company AMEX card, billed to the company, to cover expenses.
4. With one exception the Texas Air clowns are gone. Several ought to be in jail, but at least they are no longer part of Atlas.
Downsides are that scheduling continues to be a mess. There is considerable friction between some of the Polar and Atlas pilots. Getting people to return calls from HDQ is a minor and constant frustration. The flight ops management team still has some rough spots.
FYI to those actually interested in the place, first year pay as of August will be $70.33 hour/50 hour guarantee. 2nd year would be $86.05/62 hour guarantee. Scheduling owns you for 18 days per month, dropping to 17 in Feb.. But they think nothing of extending trips into OFF days without so much as a "please", "sorry" or "thank you".
Atlas is what it is, with both good and bad points. The general trend under Erickson (the new CEO) has been positive, if slower than most of us would like.
As for the original question; "Atlas Air of Kalitta Air?" Who knows. Might as well flip a coin when faced with career decisions these days.
1. STN is now part of the ALPA pilot group. It is still a mess in that some of the pilots there are grandfathered outside of the union, but the majority of the base is now ALPA and newhires going there will be part of the ALPA pilot group and contract.
2. You are correct that Atlas is bankrupt. However the company has settled with the creditors and will be out "on or before July 29". The new management team did _not_ come after the employees for concessions during this process.
3. Every pilot carries a company AMEX card, billed to the company, to cover expenses.
4. With one exception the Texas Air clowns are gone. Several ought to be in jail, but at least they are no longer part of Atlas.
Downsides are that scheduling continues to be a mess. There is considerable friction between some of the Polar and Atlas pilots. Getting people to return calls from HDQ is a minor and constant frustration. The flight ops management team still has some rough spots.
FYI to those actually interested in the place, first year pay as of August will be $70.33 hour/50 hour guarantee. 2nd year would be $86.05/62 hour guarantee. Scheduling owns you for 18 days per month, dropping to 17 in Feb.. But they think nothing of extending trips into OFF days without so much as a "please", "sorry" or "thank you".
Atlas is what it is, with both good and bad points. The general trend under Erickson (the new CEO) has been positive, if slower than most of us would like.
As for the original question; "Atlas Air of Kalitta Air?" Who knows. Might as well flip a coin when faced with career decisions these days.
On Your Six
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On Your Six,
The transition went OK—I don’t think that I traumatized any of the instructors or check airmen too badly. IMO, which no one is going to ask for, all operators would do well to copy JetBlue by systematically hiring people from a variety of backgrounds with the common thread of solid instrument skills. Too many of us run around convinced that our own background is superior to most others in some way, when in reality we all have a great deal to learn from each other. (And I make no claim of innocence in this matter.)
As for exotic places, that depends on how you define the word “exotic”. And in any case an Atlas 744 pilot would not dare to comment on such a thing when the folks in the Classic go to wherever marketing can get a dart to stick.
The transition went OK—I don’t think that I traumatized any of the instructors or check airmen too badly. IMO, which no one is going to ask for, all operators would do well to copy JetBlue by systematically hiring people from a variety of backgrounds with the common thread of solid instrument skills. Too many of us run around convinced that our own background is superior to most others in some way, when in reality we all have a great deal to learn from each other. (And I make no claim of innocence in this matter.)
As for exotic places, that depends on how you define the word “exotic”. And in any case an Atlas 744 pilot would not dare to comment on such a thing when the folks in the Classic go to wherever marketing can get a dart to stick.
ILStoMinimums
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PurpleTail
Is that RMB or USD???
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744-
Thank you for the updated info. It is nice to know tht ALPA is helping you guys (hopefully) have better work rules and life.
I didn't mean anything personal, just passing on info from friends that used to fly for Atlas, they hated it. I know the company has gone threw many ups and downs and threw many phases of business. Hopefully there will be some stability soon.
Good luck.
Thank you for the updated info. It is nice to know tht ALPA is helping you guys (hopefully) have better work rules and life.
I didn't mean anything personal, just passing on info from friends that used to fly for Atlas, they hated it. I know the company has gone threw many ups and downs and threw many phases of business. Hopefully there will be some stability soon.
Good luck.
Ghetto Buck
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Re: ATLAS Air
Hey Guys Thanks for all the info...I really appreciate the objective info recieved. Especially 744 your imput is really invaluable to me. But still i have a decision to make..
I really always wanted to work for ATLAS Air.. but after seeing the "Giant" fall they have taken after Mr. Choudoury's demise.. and a the "real " animosity between the Polar crews and Atlas crews. I am not sure i want to go thru that stuff. Quite frankly
i am alittle unsure of atlas. I have lost 15 years of employment and all my retirement after my last layoff another one will literally make me homeless!!.
So maybe as my grand mother would say..."less is more"..
again thanks for all the help.
Gh Buck.
Hey Guys Thanks for all the info...I really appreciate the objective info recieved. Especially 744 your imput is really invaluable to me. But still i have a decision to make..
I really always wanted to work for ATLAS Air.. but after seeing the "Giant" fall they have taken after Mr. Choudoury's demise.. and a the "real " animosity between the Polar crews and Atlas crews. I am not sure i want to go thru that stuff. Quite frankly
i am alittle unsure of atlas. I have lost 15 years of employment and all my retirement after my last layoff another one will literally make me homeless!!.
So maybe as my grand mother would say..."less is more"..
again thanks for all the help.
Gh Buck.
ILStoMinimums:
I did my Dash and Twin Otter time in the lower 48. I do wish that I had some Alaska time so that I could say that I had flown them in the manner intended!
PurpleTail:
Nothing personal taken. Atlas certainly has had some rough spots in the past--and still has a way to go. I was just trying to throw in some updated info.
Ghetto Buck:
Best of luck in finding a solid job.
I did my Dash and Twin Otter time in the lower 48. I do wish that I had some Alaska time so that I could say that I had flown them in the manner intended!
PurpleTail:
Nothing personal taken. Atlas certainly has had some rough spots in the past--and still has a way to go. I was just trying to throw in some updated info.
Ghetto Buck:
Best of luck in finding a solid job.
Ghetto Buck
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I don't know about either of the companies. You should go with your gut feeling on this one.
Just my .02
Good Luck on your decision and hope whatever one you pick is the right one. Money isn't everything. Look at all those guys that went to the majors before 9/11. You just never know in this industry. Today everything is fine, tomorrow everything goes down the tubes.
Just my .02
Good Luck on your decision and hope whatever one you pick is the right one. Money isn't everything. Look at all those guys that went to the majors before 9/11. You just never know in this industry. Today everything is fine, tomorrow everything goes down the tubes.
ILStoMinimums
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b747dogg
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Remember what Kalitta did to their crews a few years back. Sold the company and laid off all the crews with no recall rights. Connie will sell you out in a second. They will also furlough you if it will save them a penny. The only way to be safe from a furlough is to not be in the bottom 20% of the pilots!
I worked at Atlas for 5 years and it was a great job. Lots of good things and bad things. 16 to 24 hour duty days all the time. 2 to 7 day layovers, sometimes in great places, sometimes in the armpits of the world. You would leave on a trips with no return date. I was there during a period of lots of growth and I lived at a base. So I had lots of time at home and made good money.
Either way its a roll of the dice. One thing for sure is that you will see the world, work with some great guys and fly a great airplane. Enjoy your time as a freight dogg, I did!!!
I worked at Atlas for 5 years and it was a great job. Lots of good things and bad things. 16 to 24 hour duty days all the time. 2 to 7 day layovers, sometimes in great places, sometimes in the armpits of the world. You would leave on a trips with no return date. I was there during a period of lots of growth and I lived at a base. So I had lots of time at home and made good money.
Either way its a roll of the dice. One thing for sure is that you will see the world, work with some great guys and fly a great airplane. Enjoy your time as a freight dogg, I did!!!
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