ATC question

[cathaywannabe]

When ATC issues a descent for a turbo-jet aircraft, what descent rate do they expect? What is the minimum rate? Where is this published?

 

[kevdog]

I don't know if it says it anywhere but ATC usually expects you to descend at least 500-1000 FPM unless they issue PD. Many arrivals have crossing altitudes, so if they issue you a descent for an arrival, they expect you to fly the arrival.

In most cases, Jets usually descend around 2,500 FPM for a 3:1 descent.

I think it is somewhat common practice to decend at 1,000 FPM if ATC asks for an early descent.

Hope this helps.

 

[unreal]

I'm sure Hold West will pop in here at any moment, but I thought I'd just mention that the 7110.65 itself has a section that gives a decent idea climb/descent rates for specific aircraft. Here's a link:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html

Whether or not controllers memorize and use that is beyond me. I'm willing to guess that most just kind of feel it out.

 

[sleddriver71]

I looked up the aircraft I fly or used to fly on that list. Are these supposed to be maximum rates of climb or normal (expected by ATC) climbs? I looked at the King Air E90 and it says 2,000 fpm climb, well I can do this if I climb at Vy but definitely not a cruise climb. Then I noticed the Cessna 404 that I used to fly cargo in. The chart lists 2,600 fpm climb. That is crazy! No way will that airplane climb like that. Hopefully I am completely misunderstanding this chart or the chart is completely ignored by ATC.

 

[unreal]

It says this at the top: "Climb and descent rates based on average en route climb/descent profiles at median weight between maximum gross takeoff and landing weights."

I'm still unsure of how accurate it is though.

 

[sleddriver71]

Well in that case, I'm very sure of how innaccurate it is. Completely!

 

[wmuflyguy]

When ATC issues a descent for a turbo-jet aircraft, what descent rate do they expect? What is the minimum rate? Where is this published?

At least 500fpm, they will tell you to hurry up if they need more.

If your on an arrival, and it has a crossing restriction(even if it wasn't assigned to you yet, you should keep the descent rate high enough so you can make that restriction if/when they decide to give it to you.

Then of course, you should fly the profile that your company pays you to fly.

 

[Hold West]

I am completely misunderstanding this chart or the chart is completely ignored by ATC.

The latter is correct.

 

[Hold West]

When ATC issues a descent for a turbo-jet aircraft, what descent rate do they expect? What is the minimum rate? Where is this published?

AIM:

Descend or climb at an optimum rate consistent with the operating characteristics of the aircraft to 1,000 feet above or below the assigned altitude, and then attempt to descend or climb at a rate of between 500 and 1,500 fpm until the assigned altitude is reached. If at anytime the pilot is unable to climb or descend at a rate of at least 500 feet a minute, advise ATC.

I thought this was spelled out in a FAR somewhere, at least a far as a mandatory report if you can't climb or descend at at least 500 fpm, but I can't find it. Someone smarter than me check in if you know.

For me, I expect at least 1,000 fpm out of a turbojet climbing or descending. If I need more, I'll negotiate with you.

 

[A Squared]

I thought this was spelled out in a FAR somewhere, at least a far as a mandatory report if you can't climb or descend at at least 500 fpm, but I can't find it. Someone smarter than me check in if you know.

I'm not going to claim to be smarter than you, just closer to my AIM

5-3-3. Additional Reports

a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request:

1. At all times.


(c) When unable to climb/descend at a rate of a least 500 feet per minute.

 

[mobie]

Descent rate

5 times your ground speed works for most cases. IE 500kts = 2500fpm.
​

 

[zbwmy]

When ATC issues a descent for a turbo-jet aircraft, what descent rate do they expect? What is the minimum rate? Where is this published?

If it is a JAZZ pilot, do not expect a decent any time soon!!!

 

[kevdog]

If it is a JAZZ pilot, do not expect a decent any time soon!!!

decent Jazz sucks! Miles & Coltrane all the way!

 

[Flyerjosh]

Personally I can't say that there is a constant rate for my current job... When flying the CRJ at the airlines, the company SOP was for flight idle descents, which fell between about 2500FPM and 3000FPM.

However in the corporate environment, I imagine that if I were to regularly descend at flight idle, the boss would certainly have a fit. Generally I'll start down at 500FPM at high altitudes (above FL350) and increase as we get closer. Very rarely will you see anything above 2000FPM, and I try to aim for a continuous 1500FPM decent from cruise to landing.

 

[deafsound]

However in the corporate environment, I imagine that if I were to regularly descend at flight idle, the boss would certainly have a fit.

Why is that?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Why is that?

Just a Comfort thing. A slower decent keeps the pitch attitude of the airplane closet to level. If it is some rich guys jet, he prolly doesn't care about the gas as much as he cares about comfort.

 

[pilotviolin]

If it is like the rich guy in back we fly, I like to tell him I just saved him a couple minutes and a bunch of gas by staying up high and going fast. Most rich dudes I know got rich by being tight wads, and don't mind going down a little steeper, and saving time. We do no less than 3000 fpm descents from altitude, unless it is simple altitude changes or socal's famous steep downs 300 miles out. BTW ATC wastes more gas than SUV's do in a day.