ATC Knowledge of Pilot Speed Regs

[NCherches]

It seems like most controllers (and 1/2 of the pilots out there) are unaware of the 200 kt below class B airspace.

Holding pattern speeds, etc.

Just curious - do controllers ever "bust" guys doing more than 250 kts below 10,000ft?

Just curious if they train controllers on speeds. (I know they do with the 10,000ft. speed limit, but how about the others)

 

[moso23]

atc does not know your ias unless you tell them what it is. atc will only see your groundspeed on their radar screen.

however, if atc shows your gs to be 400kts and you're at 8000ft, then they're pobably gonna advise you to maintain 250kts or less. in this situation it would be pretty obvious that you're ias is greater than 250kts.

i do believe controllers get training on the min/max speeds at different altitudes and in differrent airspace.

 

[MJG]

How about going into MDW??

I've always wondered about this one. Going into MDW seems like usually for 31C, Chicago TRACON sometimes assigns you to maintain 210 or even higher all the way to the marker or a 5 mile final. Whatever the point it seems to always be below 3600msl which is the floor of the Chicago Class B airspace at that point. So my question is: Which takes prescendent, the 200kts below class B or the controller's instructions? I've always sided with the controller's instructions for what takes priority over one or the other. I guess once and for all I'd like to here from somebody at the Chicago TRACON as to what the "official" answer from them is.

 

[GIVDrvr]

For the record ATC does not not have the authority to approve exceptions to FAR mandated speeds. What does happen is they can ignore them for their own purposes or look the other way if you are in excess. Most controllers dont relish the role of 'sky cop'. But some do and you dont know when you are on the other end of one of those. Also if you are one of two aircraft involved in a loss of separation due to controller error or compression due to your non standard speed and the operational error investigation reveals your exceedence was contributory you will likely face a violation.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I know a guy who was flying out of DTW. He was level at about 6000', and was told by ATC to fly 280 kts. "Nxxx, fly 280 knots now!" The controller didn't seem in a mood for questions or anything but getting to that speed ASAP.

The pilot sped up to 280.

cliff
YIP

 

[falconpilot]

If I remember correctly... The speed limit at the "corridor" of class B airspace is 200kts... How many people obey that?? As far as the the 200kts below class B. I dont ever think about that too often either.. Im usually not buzzing around below class B long enough to accelerate to 250kts. Holding speeds... 200, 230, 265... Those I do abide by, unless im below 6k in ice.. I think there are alot of regs that both we pilots and controllers look the other way on

 

[trachyte11]

Do a search and I'm sure this has been talked about before.

91.117(a) Only the 'administrator' can allow faster than 250 below 10k. The FAA's definition of administrator does not include ATC.

91.117(b) ATC can allow you to exceed 200 when 4nm and less than 2500' from C or D airport.

91.117(c) 200 below B or in a corridor through B airspace. The way I read it, there is no exception.


So, other than 200 dealing with C/D airports, you should not listen to ATC and advise them unable or something to that effect.

 

[SurfinUSA]

250 Kts in B above 10,000

Hey does anyone know if the 250 Kts rule applies to class B above 10,000 Feet? (Ie Denver)

 

[AutoTransfer]

It does not. There is no speed limit in Class B. Just the application of the 250 know limit below 10'000'.
AT

 

[Stifler's Mom]

91.117(a) Only the 'administrator' can allow faster than 250 below 10k. The FAA's definition of administrator does not include ATC.

91.117(b) ATC can allow you to exceed 200 when 4nm and less than 2500' from C or D airport.

91.117(c) 200 below B or in a corridor through B airspace. The way I read it, there is no exception.

91.117(d) Chuck Norris can allow faster than 250 KIAS below 10,000', as well as faster than 200 KIAS below Class B Airspace.